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Lynz Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 05, 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: TomTom BUYERS BEWARE |
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Thought I would bring this to the attention of those considering buying TomTom products.
I lost my activation code for my recently purchased TomTom Maps Of Europe CD's and requested a replacement from TomTom.
Despite producing proof of purchase, and even offering to send in the original discs at my expense, TomTom have refused to allow me to sell on my Maps Of Europe Cd's, a purchase of over £120 not that long ago. They insist that, and I quote:
"you are not allowed to pass on a TomTom license to another person. TomTom licenses are personal and non-transferrable".
I advised them I no longer owned a PDA, and just wanted to sell on my Maps, just as I sold on my PDA. They are refusing to allow this. Buyers please beware, I have been ripped off, don't end up like me. The TomTom range looks good, but the support is pathetic. |
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ispartacus75 Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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As a TomTom 3 user I have to respond to this.
First of all, almost all software has licences that are no-transferable, its not just TomTom here.
Second, I had need for TT support a few weeks ago about activating my TT software on a new PDA and the activation code wasnt being accepted. After getting in touch with them and providing proof of purchase I had a new code within ONE HOUR
Its not really TomTom that have to be singled out here. Its the whole of the software industry.
Sorry |
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Lynz Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 05, 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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If they all suck they deserve criticism individually or as a whole. I couldn't afford to go with anyone but TomTom, investing hundreds in the software, which when I sell up a few months later is worth...spit. Yes I am upset, that was a month's savings for me.
I could name umpteen software companies that give great support with lost licenses. Who the hell are they to say I canot sell something I have paid for? As I say, if they suck, name them, saying they all do that is a crappy excuse. |
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ispartacus75 Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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When you install software the terms and conditions state that the licence for teh software is non transferable. you then have the option to agree and continue installation or disagree, cancel installation and return the software for a refund.
If you accept their T&C you cant really complain about it afterwards and if you dont read them then its up to you.
Have you ever tried to get Microsoft to allow you to resell a licence? |
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Lynz Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 05, 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I have sold a retail packs of MS Visual Basic Learning Edition as second-hand with no hassle. When I sold my last pc I sold the XP os with it no hassle. When I sold my PDA the retail games I bought were transferred no hassle. I've lost count the number of my retail games I sold on EBay. These were in effect a 'transfer of license'.
So why are TomTom above this?
Tons of people are selling their TomTom software, such as on EBay (and no, I don't just mean the dodgy versions). The only difference is these lucky ex-owners didn't lose their activation codes. I did and despite years of TomTom loyalty I get shafted. I notice TomTom sell TomTom Go units, so it seems you -can- transfer TomTom software if it's installed on their terms, e.g. sold in their little gadget. Hypocrites.
You haven't justified this and I feel right in bringing this to attention of buyers. I consider this equal to piracy, the viewpoint just depends whose pockets you go into. |
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neil01 Frequent Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately - you were caught out for being honest. If you had simply said that you had lost the code, and not mentioned your intention to sell - you would no doubt have received a new code.
I ,for one, believe that it is terms and conditions, and attitudes such as these, which are used to justifythe piracy culture. After all, even the most 'honest' people often break terms and conditions if they feel them to be 'unfair' and if they break one - why not the rest! |
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lbendlin Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Let's assume for a second you still have your PDA. You would want to reactivate TomTom on it. You give them the proof of purchase, and ask for a new (or even the old) activation key. That would work, wouldn't it? _________________ Lutz
Report Map Errors here:
TomTom/TeleAtlas NAVTEQ |
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ispartacus75 Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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yes this would work.
As i stated previously i had reason to use TT customer services.
I had installed TT on an XDA II which became faulty and was swapped out. I installed on the second no problem.
When I upgraded to XDA IIi last month I couldnt activate. I got in touch with them and they said it was because I had activated on 2 previous devices. After sending proof of purchase of a new device I had a new code in 1 hour.
Lynx
Quote: | Yeah, I have sold a retail packs of MS Visual Basic Learning Edition as second-hand with no hassle. When I sold my last pc I sold the XP os with it no hassle. When I sold my PDA the retail games I bought were transferred no hassle. I've lost count the number of my retail games I sold on EBay. |
Did you tell any of the software companies of your intention to sell on the software and licences? I very much doubt it. If you had I am sure you would have been told that it contradicts the original terms and conditions that you agreed to.
Just because it happens dont make it legal.
Lots of people take heroin, but it still aint legal.
Caveat Emptor - even if it does mean read the T&C |
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Lynz Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 05, 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Buyer Beware?
I won't be spending a large budget for GPS equipment with TomTom whereas I most certainly would have. In fact I sold my iPAQ as I wanted to opt for a fuss-free dedicated GPS unit like TT Go unit I was lining up.
As for the software I sell, like 99.999... percent of the population no I don't advise companies when I sell software. That's pedantic and a daft thing to say. Like a book I buy I have 100 percent ownership. I can sell it on, the only catch is I cannot keep any copies. There is no legal difference between software and a paper book.
Seller Beware more like, you have lost out TomTom with crap support. |
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SteveW Frequent Visitor
Joined: 21/05/2003 22:54:59 Posts: 516 Location: Leicestershire UK
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andyfr Regular Visitor
Joined: Oct 14, 2003 Posts: 100 Location: Highland - UK
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Lynz wrote: | Like a book I buy I have 100 percent ownership. I can sell it on, the only catch is I cannot keep any copies. There is no legal difference between software and a paper book. |
I have to disagree with you there. I work in IT and am responsible for ensuring software compliance. When you purchase a software application you don't own the software, only the the right to use it. Software agreements have a clause in them referring to "transfer of ownership". Some totally prevent it under any circumstances, others are more generous.
Most people don't read the software agreements and I can understand why as most of them have many pages of legal jargon. I went on a three day course on the subject and the legal implications and still only scratched the surface. Quite often I end up contacting the software company and asking them to clarify certain points. |
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RichXDA2 Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 26, 2004 Posts: 44
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe the amount of pathetic moaning on this site!
As other people have said, the license is clear when you purchase the software - if you don't like the terms DON'T BUY THE SOFTWARE!!!! It's that simple![/i][/b] |
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Lynz Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 05, 2004 Posts: 14
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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>...I can't believe the amount of pathetic moaning on this site!
Stop being pathetic and moaning about it then. It was a user-awareness warning so's folk don't fall into the -expensive- trap I did.
I repeat, there is no legal difference between ownership of a book and software. Just 'cos company-X have it in their 'terms and conditions' doesn't make it legal. See how many loan companies get a bloody nose in the small courts in the UK and you will see how far 'terms and conditions' hold if they are essentially unfair. But forget the twoddle, I can't afford to run a legal test-case anyway. I have learned that honesty does not pay.
BTW the little plastic product code was the thing I lost. It was a daft little label on a plastic sleve that proved too easy to misplace, dumped by my in-law during a tidy-up blitz.
Time to end this thread lest the moaners start moaning even more...
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ispartacus75 Occasional Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 54
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I repeat, there is no legal difference between ownership of a book and software. Just 'cos company-X have it in their 'terms and conditions' doesn't make it legal |
This shows how little you know about the law.
If you accept the T&C of sale and use then you have accepted a legally binding contract.
If TOMTOM put a condition in there that you had to run around Picadilly Circus dressed as a pink elephant with the word anarchy taped to your ears you WOULD have to do it. And you would have TOMTOM to help you get there.
And just for reference below is an excert from the T&C for NAVMAN, just so you cant bitch and whine when they tell you the same thing after you accept their T&C
Quote: | OBJECT CODE SOFTWARE OWNERSHIP AND LICENCE: If any product supplied by Navman contains software (“Licensed Software”), then, as between Vavman and Buer,Navman will retain ownership of all intellectual property rights in the Licensed Software. Buyer acknowledges that it is granted a perpetual, non-exclusive, non-transferable licence to load, run or store the Licensed Software in machine-readable form only for Buyer’s internal business use and only for use with the product (“Intended Use”). Buyer will strictly adhere to the Intended Use of the Licensed Software and will not translate, adapt, arrange, reverse compile or otherwise alter or perform error corrections, nor disclose, sell, assign, rent, lend, sub-license, or otherwise transfer the Licensed Software. Buyer may transfer such license, but only in connection with the sale of a product upon which such Licensed Software is installed and Buyer may not continue to use or operate any Licensed Software after the specific product with which the Licensed Software is associated has been sold. Nothing in these Terms will be interpreted as conveying or granting a licence to Buyer of any Licensed Software in source code form. Any licence of software in source code form will be covered by a separate agreement. |
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sland Regular Visitor
Joined: Mar 19, 2004 Posts: 144
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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However note the following part of the Navman Licence which does allow you to transfer license if you sell the PDA:
Quote: | Buyer may transfer such license, but only in connection with the sale of a product upon which such Licensed Software is installed and Buyer may not continue to use or operate any Licensed Software after the specific product with which the Licensed Software is associated has been sold. Nothing in these Terms will be interpreted as conveying or granting a licence to Buyer of any Licensed Software in source code form. Any licence of software in source code form will be covered by a separate agreement. |
_________________ Rgds,
Mike |
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