Possible new camera Types

mrstella · Regular Visitor Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 154

hmmm 74 in a 70, are you sure as that dont meet the ACPO guidlines ie 70mph plus 10% + 2mph, also are you sure it wasnt a camera van as they are always parked on the a249.

The cameras on the a249 that i have seen and based on the picture provided are definately anpr and NOT speed cams.

The speed cam signs have been up forever mainly due to the roadworks and also as the van is always parked on the layby before sittingbourne, also just checked on the medway safety partnership, there are NO speed camera (fixed) on the A249 between the M2 and Sheerness and only 1 mobile site which was the one i have already mentioned.

mrstella · Regular Visitor Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 154

whats the location on your nip that will confirm if it was a mobile unit.

Skippy · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:

RDS · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 09, 2006 Posts: 242

I'd also think 74mph in a 70mph area doesn't sound right.

10%+2mph effectively means speeds up to 79mph in a 70mph and you're unlikely to get done.

If what you've said is true I'd definitely be seeking proper legal advice.

neil01 · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject:

RDS · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 09, 2006 Posts: 242

While it is techincally true you can be pulled for driving at 1mph over the speed limit if you check out the ACPO (Association Of Chief Police Officers) own website and you'll see that allowed leeway isn't an urban myth.

Quote
'The guidance to police officers is that it is anticipated that, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, the issue of fixed penalty notices and summonses is likely to be the minimum appropriate enforcement action as soon as the following speeds have been reached:

Limit Fixed Penalty Summons
20 mph 25 mph 35 mph
30 mph 35 mph 50 mph
40 mph 46 mph 66 mph
50 mph 57 mph 76 mph
60 mph 68 mph 86 mph
70 mph 79 mph 96 mph
This guidance does not and cannot replace the police officer's discretion and they may decide to issue a summons or a fixed penalty notice in respect of offences committed at speeds lower than those set out in the table. Moreover, in particular circumstances, driving at speeds lower than the legal limit may result in prosecution for other offences, for example dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention when the speed is inappropriate and inherently unsafe.' End quote

mrstella · Regular Visitor Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 154

The ACPO guidelines are there for a reason ie the inaccuracy of the speed camera device etc these are not urban legends these are true facts.

I very much doubt that anyone has been succesfully prosecuted for being 1mph over the limit especially if they have contested it in court, would be thrown out.

Its more like the storys of being prosecuted at doing 1mph over the limit are urban legends as it shouldnt happen.

neil01 · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject:

neil01 · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:

RDS · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 09, 2006 Posts: 242

Re-read the original posts. I also chose my words very carefully hence the word 'unlikely' you'll also see that nowhere is there a suggestion that speeding within the ACPO guidelines, or 'leeway' as you first referred to it, could be used as a defence.Only that if the facts were true it'd definitely be worth seeking legal advice.

As the ACPO guidance clearly states 'other than in exceptional circumstances, the issue of fixed penalty notices and summonses is likely to be the minimum appropriate enforcement action as soon as the following speeds have been reached'
So while it is perfectly true it's 'discretionary' and not 'allowed' a police officer would have to show exceptional circumstances for booking someone at speeds less than those in the guidelines as the accuracy of speed cameras can certainly be questioned if it went to court. I'm no lawyer but getting out of bed the wrong side probably doesn't qualify as 'exceptional circumstances'

For those reasons I would suggest seeking further advice for receiving a fixed penalty for 74 mph in a 70 mph area.

Finally, do you know if your former colleague challenged the 71mph speeding charge ?

Anita · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject:

RDS · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 09, 2006 Posts: 242

As I've said I'm no lawyer so you may well be right.The wording of the guidelines, whether deliberate or not, is ambiguous and therefore can lead to interpretation.

Certainly the ACPO guidelines also state 'This guidance does not and cannot replace the police officer's discretion and they may decide to issue a summons or a fixed penalty notice in respect of offences committed at speeds lower than those set out in the table.'

Anyway in an effort to draw this to a close I guess the easiest and best solution is to never, ever exceed the speed limit, even by as little as 1mph !!

neil01 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:58 am Post subject:

robby3 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:06 am Post subject:

i thank you all for your kind replies and speedy too i might add.
I am thinking i may have jumped the gun a bit on my original post. What you are all saying about those cameras i described not being speed cameras is making a bit of sense to me now i have had a chance to calm down and spoke to a few people.
A few of my friends can remember seeing a camera van on the layby just as you describe on the day in question even though i never saw a thing. so it would appear it was a mobile unit after all. the road is stated on the NTP as A249, Newington, which to me seems wrong as newington is further down the 249 off the key street exit and approx 2 miles down the a2?
however the 74 in a 70 is correct presuming the a249 is a 70mph stretch wich im sure it is?
A friend also questioned the 74mph and told me briefly about the apco guidlines but i thank u for the detailed information greatly.
I am thinking i should fight this one, but i am really not in a financial position to be engaging solicitors atm, do you think they would drop it if i requested a court date? i think 4 mph is a bit strong myself.
thank you all once again,, sorry if i mislead anyone,, but i was a bit angry and shocked and had just recieved it in the post when i firt posted
Rob

mrstella · Regular Visitor Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 154

Hi

Yes you have been done by the van, as they class the layby as the A249 Newington.

What i would say is head over to http://forums.pepipoo.com/ and follow the guidlines in posting and they will give you some decent advise.

But whatever you do dont fill the NIP in till you have had some feedback from the forums.

Also with regards to the acpo guidelines yes police officers have discretion but the last time i looked a speed cam no matter what design wasnt wearing a police uniform.

As i have already said the gatso and other types of devices are inaccurate hence they need the extra 10% +2mph to ensure that its outside the known inacuracy of the unit.

So if you are 1mph over the limit then its very easy to cast doubt over the speed that the unit or police office has claimed. Just point an LTI20/20 at a wall to give you a good example of how good these devices are.

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