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Joined: 02/02/2003 13:44:35 Posts: 31 Location: South West, United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:40 pm Post subject:
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Map updates - don't expect updates for free (as there's almost certainly licence fees due to TeleAtlas for every update shipped), though maybe TomTom will offer more frequent updates in the future either for one-off payment or on subscription.
That'll be up to TomTom to negotiate a deal with the data provider to obtain updates. You could say TomTom do them a favour by passing on details of map inaccuracies from end users. Cost wise it should be just bundled in to the cost of the product. 5 more euros. I'm talking small updates here, a road name change and no entry etc. If they don't get a deal from the current provider they could go elsewhere, i suspect map suppliers are falling over themselves to work with a GPS player like TomTom.
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Roadworks data - that's already built into TomTom Traffic.
That requires a subscription doesn't it? Plus Traffic Jam data always sucks, by the time its reported the problem is normally resolved. I just want add 5 euros added to the cost and let me download longterm construction data.
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Loading and saving itineraries is already possible - tap and hold on the Itinerary screen for a menu. Reversing an itinerary is a little messier - you need to use the edit features to reorder the steps.
Sorry yeah it does, the reverse route would be nice though.
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POI warning - there's plenty of third party options with Navigator 3. With the NavCore version of Navigator, there's a POI warning facility built in.
Hey we're trying to think of ideas to make TomTom better not third party products ;-)
I'd also like to see altitude reflected on the maps, i mean a true 3D display with hills.
Plus of course true VGA support with landscape mode. Although i wouldn't be using landscape mode very much.
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:06 pm Post subject:
There's only two major players in the digital mapping marketplace for street navigation systems - TeleAtlas (who TomTom use) and Navteq.
My understanding is that TeleAtlas don't issue lots of small updates, though they may issue the odd patch here and there to fix problems with important roads. TeleAtlas work by issuing major releases periodically - I believe quarterly. The licence cost to issue a map based on a newer TeleAtlas release is rather more than five euros - my understanding is that it's sufficiently high really to require a one-off payment or a subscription.
Further, my understanding is that the TomTom map format requires an entire map file to be issued to incorporate any change (though occasionally TomTom have patched errors in the maps at application startup). The cost of building, testing and distributing a 100-odd MByte map file (for Great Britain - some other maps are rather larger) is not zero.
Traffic is only available on subscription - though there's currently a special offer on annual Traffic subscriptions! I can't see TomTom providing support for anything that would compete with Traffic or exposing anything of the TMC innards of Traffic.
A roadworks only version of Traffic may be possible - but I doubt there'd be much cost saving over the existing Traffic subscription, which isn't that expensive.
POI warning - it seems certain that the replacement for Navigator 3 will use the NavCore software which has a built in POI warner. It's less clear whether there'll be support for the Navigator SDK (and hence the current crop of add on programs such as UK Postcode and CheckPOInt).
I'd certainly welcome VGA support - the reason is probably obvious from my signature! I'm sure I'm not alone in not having landscape support in my mount, though it may be nice to have the option of landscape for use in the Map screen and similar.
GPS 3.07 is a VGA application (though the satellite position display is wrong - the positions are all shown too close to the top right corner - that said, I'm not sure that display is right on QVGA devices), but Navigator 3.07 is not. Navigator 3.07 objects and shuts down if you switch to landscape mode.
My personal feeling is that altitude data is unlikely - especially in the maps, as it will increase the data size significantly without enhancing the core ability of the product to navigate. Navigator isn't a topographic product - nor have TomTom shown any signs of releasing a topographic product.
TeleAtlas used to do a quarterly update until a couple of years ago, then found most of their clients weren't utilising these by releasing them to the end user, so fell back to a six monthly release schedule (two a year).
Where as NAVTEQ do a quarterly release to their clients.
This all means that NAVTEQ customers like ALK, Mapopolis for instance have a much better chance at getting the latest most up to date maps out to their user base providing they can compile the maps into their own format and get to their physical release quick quickly. It's also more likely that TeleAtlas customers will probably be at least a quarter behind, maybe 6 months depending on when TeleAtlas customers release their versions.
Most GPS companies try to pick a release date that will guarantee them new maps just prior to issuing an upgrade to their customers (the end user). So I guess with NAVTEQ on a quarterly release schedule it puts less pressure on companies like ALK/Mapopolis to release the maps quickly as there will be another update to them within another 3 months, where as TeleAtlas customers probably need to get it right, or to be seen to be issuing older maps compared with NAVTEQ to the end users.
Joined: 02/02/2003 13:44:35 Posts: 31 Location: South West, United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:40 am Post subject:
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The licence cost to issue a map based on a newer TeleAtlas release is rather more than five euros
Remember the big picture, a licensing deal would include the right to distribute updates, so 5 euros from everyone who buys Navigator 4 adds up to a big chuck of money.
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Further, my understanding is that the TomTom map format requires an entire map file to be issued to incorporate any change
Isn't that what we pay TomTom for when we buy their next product? To improve their products, they ought to work on that file format ;-)
Is it me or is the latest update from TomTom looking better on the hx4700? 3.03 looked pretty poor but 3.07 seems to have a little touchup for the VGA handsets.
As you're a hx4700 user then like myself, how the hell do you close the GPS status when leaving Navigator with the Traffic plugin installed? ;-)
Plus this is the second hx4700 I've had, is your headphone jack a little hissy?
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:44 am Post subject:
My understanding is that companies like TomTom have to pay TeleAtlas a fee for every map update they ship to an end user - and that fee is rather more than 5 Euros. Certainly that appears to be the likely corollary of TomTom's statement that they can't countenance Go users copying maps from users who had higher version numbers shipped with their device because this would incur a licence fee to TeleAtlas. I can't see, therefore, how your model is viable.
The mapping companies aren't likely to licence their data in such a way that ongoing updates are included for a one-off fee - unless that fee is extremely high! I would think a fair proportion of the income from licensing geodata is from people upgrading their existing products. People need to keep their products up to date, and no accountant / finance director is going to volunteer to give up that revenue stream. I suspect much of the cost of an upgrade with newer maps is the newer maps; so far TomTom's upgrade charges have been very reasonable.
I would guess that the cost of a map update is largely the licence fee to the geodata provider. There are some costs involved in formatting, testing and distributing the data (whether it's shipped on physical media or via the Internet), but they're likely to be rather less than the licence fee. All but the distribution costs can be amortised across the entire user base taking the update anyway.
All this can only be written from what I hear - obviously precise details of agreements between the geodata suppliers and their customers are commercially confidential.
The file format stuff - efficiency is important for proper operation of the system. As the mapping companies don't trickle updates to their customers anyway, choosing instead to make a fixed number of releases per year, there seems little point fixing something if it's not broken.
Again, we can only go on indirect evidence here. The TomTom map format is proprietary and closed - this is the industry norm.
GPS 3.07 is a VGA application. Navigator 3.07 is not - though it's the only version recommended for WM2003SE. I never ran 3.03 on my hx4700 - 3.07 was out by the time I got my machine.
My headphone port is fine - no hissing noise that I can pick up with either of the sets of headphones I have lying around (some fairly good Sony in-ear headphones and some mid-range Sony hi-fi headphones). Are you sure your headphones are well grounded?
Joined: 02/02/2003 13:44:35 Posts: 31 Location: South West, United Kingdom
Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject:
Interesting reading this discussions on map updates now that TomTom Plus is available, downloadable map updates...who would have thought it 5 months ago ;-)
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