Can we sue (lawyers out there?)

[Mark R Penn]

My understanding is that it does not matter where the vendor is located, they are trading in the UK via their web site, and so as long as I was in the UK when I placed my order, UK law applies. If, instead of their web site, TT set up a stall on Fareham High Street (if they could find it ) they would come under UK law, and an e-commerce web site is simply a stall by another method.



Basically if you choose to sell in a particular country, by whatever means, you are bound by that countries laws. If they do not want that to be the case, they always have the option to not ship to the UK.



I almost agree that the best we could expect is our money (and our surrendered TTN1 CD's) back, and as individuals that's all we are likely to get, but as a user base I would also hope that we would either get TT to deliver what they promise, or at the very least withdraw the false claims.
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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

[JackT]

Hi,

I tested this morning TTN2 using a Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox (Xscale processor) and a Socket Bluetooth GPS : no problems.

So the problems you decribed may not be specifically linked to the use of a Xscale processor and/or a Bluetooth GPS...



JT

[Pc-Mobile]

Quote: Originally posted by Mark R Penn on 09 April 2003

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Re the coment that it depends on TomTom's terms of sale - no, not in the UK. Their terms are overwridden by consumer law here, and they have an obligation to provide something that is fit for purpose, regardless of what terms they try to impose. The phrase "your statutory rights are not affected" is important if you are in the UK and you want to tackle them.



Mark

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That is if you bought the item in UK. If you bought from oversea, UK law does not apply.



Even so, your statutory rights allows you to demand your money back and that is probably the best a consumer can get or the supplier can offer.




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Pc-Mobile
http://pc-mobile.net/gps.htm

[iancjc]

if its happening on 3870 then the common link isn't the processor but it could be BT or the way the com ports are organised.



I am having no problems at all on a 3850 (other than some of the issues of out of date maps etc), but am thinking of buying a dell in the next couple of months to replace it (this is on permanent hold now and I will wait for the new generation of Xscale - faster memory bus better battery life - due in the next few months).



For definate, this program does not do what it says on the tin. I think even once the bugs have been fixed most will still be dissappointed with nav2 - it could and should have been so much better - we could all have have lived with Nav 1 for a few more months to get a really good product.



Can we expect Nav3 in another 5 months?



On a positive note it looks like activation doesn't stop all the reinstalls!

[Talkingbollox]

I have a 3870, so it's not confined to the Xscale processors. I can't even get it to fire up, never mind connecting a GPS receiver to it.

[Mark R Penn]

I'm still not convinced this is an xscale problem, as mine is working fine on a 5450. A high prportion of those reporting problems seam to be using the BT recievers (I'm not) so could it be connected with that?



Re the coment that it depends on TomTom's terms of sale - no, not in the UK. Their terms are overwridden by consumer law here, and they have an obligation to provide something that is fit for purpose, regardless of what terms they try to impose. The phrase "your statutory rights are not affected" is important if you are in the UK and you want to tackle them.



I also think that it is certainly true that they have misrepresented (lets not beat about the bush - lied about..) their product in their advertising. The claim that "You can now use a postal code as a short-cut for entering a city name; In Great Britain, streets now also have a postal code postfix." is simply not true. It may be a result of misunderstanding how postcodes work outside Holland, but that's no excuse - they are an international company selling products designed to navigate, so they have a responsibility to make sure they DO understand.



Mark
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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

[Decker]

Well just because it don't work well on the 3870 either does not mean that TTN2 problems could be even bigger on the XScale platform. I have the Nordic version of the program and TT have managed to screw up the map data also. The program keeps telling me to drive on the wrong side of the road and to take roundabouts in the wrong direction. I really think they should know the traffic direction in the countrys they sell the software to.



Decker

[Dave]

Excellent! Sorry, not really excellent, but it means I'll have a way of troubleshooting this as soon as my other upgrade CD comes in the next few days. Sorry, must have missed your posts regarding the 3870.



I did report in the preview that there had been some changes made to the Emtac driver, it was shown differently than in TTN1, so it could be this. Try selecting NMEA 4800 and the COM port you are using, an easy way to test this is to download WinFast Navigator from our downloads page and you should easily be able to work out which COM port you're using by trial and error until you see some data coming through on the development screen.



I'm wondering if changing TTN2 to NMEA 4800 COMx will get it working, or whether there's more of an underlying issue with the program itself. Either way this should be easily fixed on a downloadble update.

[Decker]

Hello,



The problem with TTN2 is not just limited to the XScale processor. I have a 3870 with an ARM processor, and TTN2 crashes and has all sorts of problems on this plattform to.



Decker

[Dave]

Tony, there do seem to be major inherent problems with 39xx series iPAQ's, and it sounds to me if they are having this problem, then 54xx series may also have the same problem as it may be down to an XScale issue. XScale processors are not ARM, which is what 90% of the Pocket PC market runs, the emulate ARM processors, and this is where problems come into the equation. Many other manufacturers are having problems with XScale processors, there seems to be something majorly different in XScale that's throwing off these programs.



I am surprised TomTom haven't tried this, or perhaps they have and it worked fine for them. As you're probably aware there is only so much testing you can do before you let a product out to the market, I've worked for over 20 beta teams over past years, and some of the bugs I've found I'm glad I did find them when I did otherwise the programs/games would have been trashed by people from the outset.



I do think that the GPS companies are doing very limited testing, look at the Navman SP1 issues, what this is doing to everyone who uses Navman, it not only doesn't work, but it disables the GPS Receiver! More testing should be done before release, and that's what we're trying to push here with the GPS companies.



I totally sympathise with you, but bringing a class action or law suit against TomTom really won't help much. TomTom have acknowledged the problem, and they are working to resolve this, how long it will take to recitfy this specific issue, I'm not sure, in the mean time it really is up to you if you want a refund or if you want to wait for a fix.

[Pc-Mobile]

As far as sueing goes, you have to look at their terms of sale.

In general, you will find that terms of sale exclude any chance of claiming damages (is that what you are after? or do you just want to return and get refund?)



The best any vendor/supplier can do is to refund what you have paid. If you bought from TomTom, I am sure they will oblige (even if their terms does not allow refund) if you give your reasons, valid or otherwise (they should try to help you sort out your problems first though).

If you bought from a dealer, you have to go back to the dealer for any return/refund.


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Pc-Mobile
http://pc-mobile.net/gps.htm

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