ALK and the SIlence of the Lambs

[topgazza]

With all the complaints, quries and wishlist growing by the hour I am amazed that ALK retain this silence. They have some severe problems with users dumping their product and throwing away £135. All voice their compliants on this, well read board, and definately influence potential buyers who presumably shoot off and buy TT3 or whatever. I have had few problems with CP5 but other have. Some will be their equipment/config/software but the consistent pattern of the complaints is a worry moving forward. At the very least I would expect them to announce something, anything even through Dave would be a step in the right direction that they are doing something. Working on an upgrade to address some of the main issues, free of course as patches and upgrades are a tacit (and legal) admission that the product is not fit for purpose. This is the same in any software release anywhere else of course. What ARE they doing at the moment?

I hope they are not developing some whizzy new feature for the "Live" function rather than fixing the many issues with CP5 . If they announce CP6 at "only" £99 for the upgrade I will not be impressed. As I said, I have very little problems with CP5 but even I am getting cheesed off by the silence.

[gripp]

How well you reflect my own feelings - and I suspect those of many other users!

I paid "extra" to get CoPilot (instead of my original plan to get TomTom), and get increasingly frustrated by it's inability to announce POI's in anythng but an erratic and sporadic manner, and by the frequent lock-ups when calculating a change of route.

I've submitted an official bug report to ALK, but of course there has been no repsonse.

I can't justify chucking £135 and starting again so am now totally dependent on ALK sorting out these problems. However, I must say that when CPL works correctly, it is very good, and I especially like the ability to plan routes on the PC and then download them.
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Nokia E65 & TT Nav6

[Rattle]

I would say it's the lambs that are braying and the wolves (ALK) are keeping their silence having sheared enough wool off us to keep them going on developing version six with yet another set of bells and whistles and most of the old bugs still there. Will this decrease the share of the new users? Unlikely, as the new users are attracted by the bells and whistles assuming everything else is okay. Will this decimate the already existing upgrade sector considerably? Also unlikely, as for most of CP users the bugs are not critical - you have workarounds and can live with them and therefore you don't dump the software. Plus you'll be upgrading because you hope that the bugs are be fixed, like with version 5
So why would they bother, really?

Cheers,
Eriks

[topgazza]

I think most are attracted by the basic function, route planning, but I take your point. Reading the reviews here and the reading the users complaints here also I would be very confused as a potential buyer and would probably go for TT3 if I had my time again. So I think it is causing ALK some serious credibility issues.

I'll stick to it for now but I am definately keeing my options open for the future.

[Dave]

AFAIK ALK are still working on fixes, they have gone a long way to tracking down the memory problems, but a lot appear to be down to what setup people have, e.g. how much memory is available, what programs are running in memory etc. It can be difficult replicating some of the problems when you can't fully replicate it in a test environment 100% of the time.

For instance on the SmartPhone I have trouble free running providing I have soft reset the phone prior to use and don't use any other applications. Once I start running other applications these stay resident in memory and if you manually close them they don't always give back the full amount of memory there was before they ran, and this can create memory issues for other apps that require large amounts of memory, e.g. CoPilot.

Similar problems arise with the PPC version. AFAIK ALK are addressing the POI Alerts on both PPC and SmartPhone, and the Memory Leaks, and they're a good way through resolving these. I can't say when a patch will be available as I know no more than you do at the moment but I'll try and find out what I can.

I think everyone has to bring this into perspective though, it's not JUST ALK that are having problems here. Look at other companies...

- TeleType (problems with routing)
- Destinator (problems with routing and no roundabout support)
- TomTom (Constant crashes on newer updates, TTBT stack issues hogging COM port, Routing Issues, no M6 toll road)
- ALK (Memory Leaks, POI Alert problems, Routing issues)
- Navman (Routing issues, Map Display problems)
- Mapopolis (Routing Issues, Problems stitching maps together - Population limit)
- Navigon (Memory Leaks, Large amount of memory required)

When you start listing a lot of the main complaints for each of these applications you start to see a bigger picture that every application is far from perfect. Some are more perfect than others, or appear more perfect with better user interfaces etc, some applications only exhibit routing issues in certain areas of the country or countries, so this can sometimes be down to geodata provided or geocoding, or simply something has screwed up in the compression or making the files public. However, you do have to look at the big picture. I'm not saying it's right that you have problems, I'm just saying it's not just CoPilot that experiences problems.

[xda]

[topgazza]

Dave, and not for the first time, I agree with what you are saying. As I said config issues, finger trouble, expecting play and go etc etc all contribute to a bad experience. But xda point is spot on as well. For me its not the fcat that CP5 has problems its that their response is unbelivably shoddy. Or should I say lack of response. The issues they can address that are consistant are, in my view, very fixable. The POI notification is only one such basic problem.

I am sure as you say they are working on it. But what are they working on? A company who, in my view, need to boost the negative eperience of quite a lot of people would be better served by publiclly acknowledging at least some of the issues and state "like other companies we are seeking to fix them and issuea free upgrade/patch" or words to that effect. Its not admitting anything more than they are working on continuous improvements. I work for a company that does that with its software all the time. the scale is different but the principle is the same. (No not Microsoft, wash your mouth out) As I keep saying, I like CP5 but as xda says that if TT3 can do it........

[xda]

[mark1968]

I had already purchased TomTomv2, then the Upgrade to V3, I was persuaded from reading the review on this website to move over to CoPilot so that I could get better route planning as I often tow a Caravan and thought that the RV mode would be my answer.

My main issues with this product is that the 3 display screen is not a clear as it could be and it sometimes very confusing, not helped by the lack of voice instructions at some junctions. Also the delay in getting the Traffic option released. I am very very disappointed by the complete lack of feed back from ALK and now regret my decision in forking out the money to purchase their software.

I have since moved back over to TomTom and having learnt how to use the avoid area, and road speed options I am very happy with that product.

Having CeBit coming up in March I expect that TomTom will be releasing this years product for the PDA and wonder if CoPolot are intending to do the same.

If this is the case have been working on fixing the product for the next release ignoring the user base?
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Please follow me on twitter @mdyson1968

[jdw7]

Dave,
Has the original gushing review of this product been amended to reflect the problems encountered ?

Also - is there a legal definition of "shorlty" ? as is "Optional Real Time Traffic alert service and avoidance of traffic incidents available shortly" which has been on their website since launch last summer (IIRC).

I've emailed them about this and, of course, got no reply - I'll be wanting my money back shortly if they don't deliver on this.[/b]

[topgazza]

"Shortly" , depending on any other words used in the overall stement is normally interpreted in this context as meaning in a short period of time (seems obvious I know). What that is, is open to definition but a Judge would probably take the view that several months is not short or reasonable, the latter is the key weight on the arguement. Also if the reason for buying was guided by the promise, because thats what it is, of some feature that has not been delivered in a reasonable time frame then yes you could claim your money back. A definition in this case depends on the Judge. he may decide that the ad was not intended to mislead but my legal eagle at work says that whilst it is a slightly grey area they tend to er on the side of the consumer where a manufacturer makes statements that could be deemed misleading. Even if the non delivery of the feature is due to a genuine reason. they have a duty to inform and provide some guidance on a date.

If ALK had said " this year" or "as soon as available" they would be on firmer ground. You would have a prima facia case depending on all the facts though but any half decent supplier would not even allow the debate to go that far, I would hope.

[Rattle]

Do I already hear the drone of a lynch mob at the front of the courthouse?

Why not give ALK a chance and help them here? I mean, shouting that CP does crappy routing and then demanding a fix of the bug is easy and satisfying. But, honestly, did any of you say what you really wanted? It's easy to say that something is broken, it's another to say how you would like it to be fixed. So, what would you like CP routing to be? Good? Define good. As good as Garmin Quest? You mean exactly the same as Garmin Quest? No? What then? Would you like to go from London to Dublin via back yards and unsealed dirt roads just because it makes the route 5% shorter? Well, maybe some of you would, but some would not. As it happens I'm more or less statisfied with CP routing. In Germany at least, the quickest routes are always via motorways even if the distances are larger that way - you simply get there faster, and that's logical because I select Quickest to get somewhere quicker. And, as a matter of fact, I would not want to have to drive unsealed roads even if I chose Shortest. On the other hand, I cannot accept the issue of CP refusing to accept reality and refusing to re-route when I veer of the planned path, something which seems not to be a problem for most of the others here... So what should ALK do - what seems reasonable for one user, is not reasonable for another. Ok, in case of routing, a road preference menu like in the desktop version would probably satisfy most of us as it would introduce the _possibility_ of going down the dirst roads, not that I think anyone would actually drive there But for other problems that are not straightworward, the programmer has to know how to fix them.
What I'm saying is that if ALK rushed in to fix every fault someone reported to them as they (ALK) saw fit, they would get ten bug reports the next day saying why did you change that, I loved it that way. Doesn't go for all the problems of course but you get the drift.

I'm not talking about traffic or other things promised but not delivered at all (are there any, actually, besides traffic?).

I think here's how we could help ALK see the real picture in a constructive way (or at least try):

1) set up a poll that all of CoPilot users could take to indicate their overall satisfaction level - that would give the idea of whether the problems really are severe with the majority (since mostly the dissatisfied post here, it gives the impression things are really, really bad, I mean, abysmal ).

2) start a kind of like the wishlist thread only for bugs, but not the "it doesn't calculate reasonable routes" kind, as these don't really help anyone. One post for one bug. Read before you post so that same bugs aren't posted twice, describe specifically (including location(s) it happens, as opposed to something like "very high number of places") and say how you would like to see it (not just 'fixed' although it would be enough for some I guess). It would be interesting to see how long this thread would get without duplicates, as compared to all the fuss about it. This list then could be the basis for ALK to follow up. For example, Dave or someone from PockepGPS could send them a link so they cannot pretend they didn't see it

Cheers,
Eriks

[topgazza]

Rattle, I wouldn't expect one of my customer to tell me "how" to fix bugs. I appreciate it when they take the trouble to report problems, and Lord knows theres plenty of them documented on this board. After that its down to me. The problem with CP5 for many is that the basic calculation and comparison algorithm is the issue. A list of "faulty" routes would take forever to collate and fix. They need to attack the basic programming and, I suspect, a large proportion of the problems would disappear. They are not unique as Garmin/TT3 have similar, if not so severe, problems. But this is about ALK the others can sort their own problems out.

I think the fact that so many people have and are posting on this board on this issue shows it is a real problem for ALK. They make money out of us so they deserve to accept the the stick and the plaudits in equal measure. There is no doubt that a reasonable number of problems are as Dave says, either finger, config, memory and a variety of other compatability issues as well. Underlining all this is the routing problem which is, again, a pretty basic programming issue. I tried a friends PDA with TT3 and found it a nightmare trying to get used to it after CP5. That sort of changeover issue causes grief as well, and disilusionment which comes out in some of the posts for sure. To be fair ALK can't The wish list is pretty big as well here with added features and improvements to existing. Sorry to keep repeating this but I use CP5 and have had very little trouble. I love the PC version for route planning and after afew months can tweak it pretty good to give me a faultless, nearly, planning.

Its ALKs silence that puzzles me. I'm sure its not arrogance but ignoring your customers is not the way to go.

[Skippy]

[gripp]

My wishlist is simple:

1. Fix the sporadic lack of POI announcements

2. Fix the PDA hanging when re-calculating re-routes

Once this basic functionality is fixed, then you can indulge in the intellectual discussion about shortest/quickent/autobahn routes.
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Nokia E65 & TT Nav6

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