COPILOT 5 UK ROUTING

[Dave]

[PONDEROUS]

Thanks to Crash for a useful perspective.

It is indeed useful to discover that Copilot may be the best available given the state of development of Pocket PC-based applications - which is what I think you are suggesting. Perhaps if that is what the reviewers mean, then that is what they will say in the future.

Having said this, I do not accept your suggestion that cricitcism is synonymous with discourtesy. Similarly, there is a difference between letting a matter drop when all is cleared up (your flogging a dead horse point) and doing so when a party not only will not accept fair comment but clouds the issue.

Nevertheless, I wish Dave well with his future reviews.

[rento]

To be onest i think all of these gps software have something wrong with the maps, the software, look and feel and god knows.

However if I was to say which one is the killer app, I would have no doubt, is CP5. Yes it has bugs but at least it has a very, very large range of features and almost proper maps. Others provide narrow functionality and made-up maps.

Now given that the price is not any higher than ur average tt, I think is a good buy.

I dont know why this companies, developers and mapping men cant get right one software... I say one! It's amazing that between so many of them there isnt a flawless one. We will always have to put up with something...

Will CP6 be a flawless app? I wouldnt hope too much
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[topgazza]

I've just read this thread from beginning to end. I'm knackered. However...

Crashbikers comments fit my experience to the letter. I set off on my journeys and only pay attention when I am near to my destination, how near is near I decide at the time. I have been travelling from Basingstoke to Bedminster Down south of Bristol. fairly straight forwar and apart from getting a bit confused with the norious routes through bristol city to the outskirts, I ignore the dubious instructions, it copes OK provided I pay more than a little commonsense to its view of life. Should we have to do this? Probably not at £135 but it works well if you do and for the disappointment is the lack of direction (pun intended) by ALK. They must have an enourmous list of issues and a simple statement of a patch or upgrade to address some would be a useful start in PR.

Its a shame that those folk here that rely on their Sat Nav to provide a door to door service find that its falls short. That is a major disappointment and you can understand them being very miffed. They have a valid point and I think the difficulty in a disappointed expectation can never be recovered. Especially if there is little chance of the the product ever being able to meet it. Oddly enough I have also been travelling along country lanes around Bramley, Mortimer and Burgfiled a lot and it seems to have no problem at all so maybe as Dave says its a "local" Navteq issue in some of the areas mentioned in this thread. Still frustrating though

Overall I have not experienced the problems others have, or at least not to the same degree to cause me pain. There are some serious flaws in the lack of user control over choosing routes and the mysterious disappearence of POI notifications. Again ALK are remiss in not notifying us. At least they could let Dave know what is planned and he could pass this on. That type of omission is inexcusable. They need to pull their socks up.

I must admit reading this stuff makes me reach for my TT3 disk but after another trip to Bristol today and a re route thanks to my Trafficmaster Freeway warning me of a problem, CP5 took the reroute and got me there OK. So I still rate it as OK for me. I would have liked a better avoid road feature but once again over to you, ALK. Whats happening?

[PONDEROUS]

It's interesting to read on this thread how people learn to live with a deficient application. I am no exception; however, Topgazza is right to say that it is frustrating. It is particularly so for those who, like me, need navigation aids for their work.

We have to call on numerous addresses every day, and it is very frustrating indeed as we have to check, and if necessary adjust, every journey, however "short" as the chances are CP5 will increase the distance by up to 90%, as we have seen. Just what do the experts mean when they say "shortest"? It beats me, I have to say.

This brings me to reflect on a further disappointing contribution from Dave, who after all is a reviewer and forum manager, as follows:

[topgazza]

Dave is fair though in his comments. For someone who does numerous trips a day from a variety of start points the whole industry product range is pretty bad. Is it early days ? I suspect it is but I must confess doubts over the will or ability of the companies involved ever getting it close to acceptable. There will always be something to blame, usualy the maps. Ultimately it will down the the highly complex algorithms in the software in what is a multi layed process. I work with programmers most days so I can understand the issues.

HOWEVER! The answer for TT3, CP5, Garmin et al is to set expectations a bit more realistically. There is certainly, in my view, a prima facia case for misleading advertising. You only need to read statements about "never getting lost again" etc to see how the perception is set way beyond the capabilities. Sure, you'll never get actually lost again but as for the various products ability to get you to your destination in the most efficient way possible is in doubt. Methinks they make claims like that as a catch all generalisation which has the effect of glossing over the purpose of sat nav. Which is not the fear of getting lost but getting somewhere with some degree of efficiency and accuracy.

Having said all that they are guides only, pretty good guides when taken alongside some knowledge of the route. Poor for short or medium journeys of the type Ponderous and many others do. If you don't care about fuel costs then fine but who doesn't in reality ?

I travel probably 10 12 times a month around the south of the country and the Midlands. CP5 has never let me down but I have found myself dictating the main route but planning on the PC is great and often removes that problem. Overall I repeat that all the sat nav companies should come clean and put clear, open caveats around their products. In other field they would be withdrawn fron the market. Heavens, we put up with Microsofts rubbish for plenty of years but I'm afraid ALK and others give the impression its a money making exercise. I'm sure its not true but their customer services is appaling, thats for all of them. Until thats sorted out and regular patch upgrades appear to fix obvious faults they still have a lot of lost ground to catch up on

[Skippy]

[topgazza]

I know Skippy but the common blame is the maps. I agree totally with the software point, as I made in my post. I have to say my CP5 has never crashed on my PDA or PC. Once you eliminate all the usual culprits such as config/software/CF orSD card etc etc on a PDA it still boils down to the seemingly poor work on the CP5 algorithms.

Although, again, I have not experienced it in a way thats caused me a serious problem but I know its there. Whatever experiences we all have had, good bad or indifferent its about time ALK took stock and responded in some way. The continued silence stinks.

[topgazza]

Skippy just ran the Southampton to Hastings route on my CP5 PC version. Selected avoid motorways and shortest route.

Chose the following route

A27 Porchester
A284 passing by Littlehampton
A280
A20025
A270
A26 Firle
Then onto Hastings. pretty much a straight line all the way. Distance 100miles.Of course I could download it to my PDA .Goodroute?

[topgazza]

Skippy just ran the Southampton to Hastings route on my CP5 PC version. Selected avoid motorways and shortest route.

Chose the following route

A27 Porchester
A284 passing by Littlehampton
A280
A20025
A270
A26 Firle
Then onto Hastings. pretty much a straight line all the way. Distance 100miles.Of course I could download it to my PDA .Goodroute?

[Skippy]

[topgazza]

I did both and indeed the default settings takes the oddest route but the alternative worked. A a bit of forthought needs to be applied to get the "best" route which is great if you have access to your PCand a bit of time to learn it but on the road on a PDA you can still do it but its not as easy or flexible. I'm not suggesting you wouldn't apply some forthought of course but you can get CP5 to provide a better route and often quickest is obviously not the best as it will always select motorways even if its out of the , logical, way.

Of course it comes back to the original key issue. Algorithms. Or rather the lack of. Whilst Garmin will be better in some respects I'm sure it has its own pitfalls in others, price being a non technical one but relevant to most. Doesn't excuse CP5 and its promise. My own opinion is that ALK were too keen to promote "new features" and "latest maps" at the expense of getting the routing right first. All thats happened is a bunch of p***ed off consumers and again, the deafening silence is not helping. I am also surprised other aren't joining in here but maybe they have given up complaining. Maybe we are just optimists who think someone who gives a damn, ALK?, actually reads this stuff. I hope so. Mind you I travelled from Basingstoke to Bristol today on a pre planned route and CP5 was flawless, weird voice included.

[Skippy]

[topgazza]

I feel your pain Skippy. On a bike as well if I'm right? Now that would severly tick me off as well. At least in a car you can twiddle with the controls much easier. Completely concur with the sentiment of having a SAt Nav you can trust. For sure I use mine slightly restricted if the route it gives me is in doubt, say BAsingstoke to Coventry. I drive the way I prefer and let it take over nearer the destination. Not ideal for £135 by any means. If its an area I don't know I trust it as I wouldn't know the local shortcuts anyway. I guess after 30 years of driving all over the UK I wouldn't feel the same irritation as the guy that travels around Norfolk and finds it pretty useless.

Although I really do find the PC CP5 pretty much OK especially if I have time to preplan the trip. The Avoid motorway slider always seems to work, such as the Southampton/Hastings trip. Its serious weakness is the way it plots routes ...end of story. I appreciate that even though I haven't had any severe problems personally. Today it took me to Bristol again and included a reoute due to traffic and did a spot on job. Go figure!

Colleague has a Garmin Street Pilot III and he loves it. For an extra £90 I could have bought one instead of my setup. I have my doubts about CP5 now despite it being OK for me, about its future. They all suffer from severe faults though including the likes of TT3. People always seem to have to find workarounds,

I dunno. Until Dave gets something out of ALK, if he is, its like bashing our heads against a brick wall.

[Rattle]

Looks like you guys are missing the point here. Ok, so you went and bought a SatNav for a hundred quid or so. Did you ever stop to think just why you did it? Please, don't tell me it was because of this feature or that or what it promised. Your first point of choice was the price. I'm pretty sure most of you chose a PDA solution because it was cheaper. And only THEN you went for CoPilot because it offered this or that. Of course, CoPilot happens to be one of the, if not THE, most expensive one of the lot, but it still is a cheap piggyback solution. And that's what it is at the end of the day. And that's why maybe you should put your hands in your pockets or drop a peek in your bank accounts and look at those £££ that are sitting there (or think about all those lagers they had bought 8) ) because you din't buy a Garmin Street Pilot or a VDO Dayton or an OEM system together with your car. So ask yourself now - was the saving worth it? I can say it sure was for me, although I'm going for an OEM SatNav in my new beemer anyway (gonna keep CP as a portable though) Does it offset the inconvenience of all the bugs that CP has? Again, works for me. Does that mean you should be happy about it? No, by all means not, butt the living daylights out of ALK until they bend over and deliver what they got paid for. But please don't set your expectations above the price you paid for it. Do you write angry letters to your car dealer when you discover that the pram won't fit into your Takuro Spirit ...errr... Toyota Yaris, even though it were advertised as "the compact with the most space in its class"? (which it isn't :D but forget it) Or you find that the pram fits, but only when you unscrew all the wheels and disassemble the carcass? Probably not, because you know that you bought a Yaris because a Hummer was a bit too dear. You just bite the bullet and unscrew those wheels if you only need to do this occasionally, or you trade in your Yaris for something bigger. If you look for a perfect digital camera, you won't find any, even within the same manufacturer's lineup. The one that has the best zoom is for some mysterious reason totally crippled in the area of Auto Focus, the one with the good AF doesn't have any image stabilization and so on. Of course when you buy the camera, all the features on the box are there. My point is, you will always have to compromise when it comes down to software and experience shows that the less you pay the more you must be ready to compromise.
The way I see it, and I must agree with Dave on this point, a general purpose SatNav (of which a PDA solution is definitely representative) is there for you to get from A to B instead of getting lost in the process. So it told you to go down a motorway instead of the scenic route? Well , but it got you there eventually, didn't it? I have also found myself mad while trying to persuade CP to show me the route and not sneak out onto a motorway, but that's my problem, it isn't really the purpose of this SatNav - if I know the route anyway, I take it without needing turn by turn instructions and leave CP in Navigation mode to show me my position on the map as a safety net. I'm driving around a city that seems to consist of tunnels. A PDA SatNav is completely useless when you're down there and the tunnel has 6 exits and you must take one of them. If I needed to be guided in tunnels, I would not be buying a PDA solution, I would have to get a wired one which would cost more. I didn't, but I can sustain an occasionally mistaken exit. If you can't then you have the wrong navigation system. Same goes for those extra miles that CP is adding to your journey. As for Ponderous, the SatNav you seem to require in your line of work is definitely not to be found in the PDA sector. Even so, I would advise you to test them all out in turn. However, for military precision and "seven nines" failsafe operation you would have to make friends with someone in RAF But I'm afraid a hundred squid just won't cut it in your case.
Please don't interpret this as a defense of ALK and their in many ways buggy product, believe me I've done my share of bithicng and moaning in this forum Just stop and consider also your requirements before you choose the next one, luckily CoPilot is not the only SatNav on the market, and your experience is worth more than those 135£.
For those who decide to stick around with CoPilot like me, all I can say is be prepared to wait a looong time for the issues to be resolved, as ALK don't seem to be exactly bent on fixing up all those severity 3 and lower issues. And sulking on the forum ain't gonna help it any. If you have issues, put them in writing, e-mail them over and THEN follow up on the phone and ask for a specific resolution date. If nothing else it should at least keep the phone support hopping and might satisfy your thirst for revenge somewhat

Cheers,
Eriks

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