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Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject:
DavidW wrote:
I don't fully understand your comments about TomTom GPS, Lutz - you seem to be saying it's possible to graft some or all of the TomTom GPS 2.07 or 3.07 into the mix to improve things, but I'm not sure on how you're suggesting this is done and exactly what capabilities you get as a result.
What I did was to take the new GPS driver, and manually extract only the ttgpseng.exe . I then replaced only this one file, copying it over my existing v2.06 ttgpseng.exe . I did not install any of the BT DLLs.
This allows you to
- avoid any BT issues and world domination aspirations
- use the new ttgpseng.exe with TTN2 and TTN3
- continue to use the TomTom GPS.exe control panel applet
- record a log file and play it back to TTN 2004. To do that you have to first specify a physical GPS in the setup of TTN 2004, but then go to the applet and specify the log playback as the data source. A bit weird, but it works well.
The only "drawback" will be that the GPS engine version in the control applet will continue to be reported as 2.06 . I can live with that... _________________ Lutz
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: Common platform
I tend to agree with Zeena. This definatley looks like a (bad) common platform app. Unfortunately, TomTom seem to have done what a lot of developers do, which leads to a lousy product: taken the lowest common denominator.
There have been many companies who have tried to do multi platform apps and it's typical (but wrong) to figure out the common feature set. Palm has A, B, D, and E.
PPC has A, B, C F G,
Go hardware has A, B G, K
So we'll support features A and B only (lowest common denominator), and stick a really nasty UI on all of the platforms.
The UI on 2004 sucks
Simple things like strings are not sorted, and don't even fit in the window, and you can't read enough of them to select correctly. The Port selection in the GPS config is a good example. At the end of the list there are two ports: "Bluetooth Serial Port COM8" and "Bluetooth Serial Port COM5". both are tuncated and show only "Bluetooth Serial Port..." No problems, I'm a smart guy, I know my alphabet and numbers from one to 10: the first would be COM5 and the second COM8, right? Oh no, not with 2004. You click the second one in the list and then find out it's COM5 (and COM8 was before it).
C'mon. this is BASIC stuff
Usability is terrible:
4 clicks to get to the list of maps (2 in TTN 3)
7 click to get to the GPS settings (2 in TTN 3)
A stupid legal warning everytime you start with no "Dont show me'this infernal warning again: I promise not to sue you" option.
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject:
Mark,
some of your comments are valid (increased number of taps for example) , some need to be seen in context.
Having had the luxury to live both in Europe and in the US I can slowly appreciate that "Usability" has a different value here and there. Especially the term "intuitive" is a mine field, because it basically relies on the experience that users have collected over years.
In Europe "intuitive" means different things than in the US. The best example is the way printed maps look. This is totally different between Europe and the US, and then within Europe you also have some nuances. But there are also many other examples - like how to sort search results etc.
I think that to a US user the new TomTom UI needs some warming-up-to, but for a European user it is totally and utterly intuitive. It is by far the cleanest UI of all solutions that I have seen so far.
Doing so it does violate quite a few of Microsofts Design Guidelines, but from what I have seen Magneto (Windows Mobile 2005) will actually drift into tha very same usage paradigm direction...
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: Intuitive
Hi Lutz
Thanks for the reply. I too have lived in both. I have lived in 7 countries on 4 continents and recently (Oct) moved back to USA from Europe. I have also worked in the software industry for a considerable time.
I agree that on the whole TTN is intuitive to use (esp. TTN2 and TTN3), but IMHO 2004 is a massive backward step regarding features, UI quality and in some places intuitiveness. It fundamanetal software UI design that if you display a choice list to a user (esp,. one where you can predict nearly all possible values) you either display the entire string, or worse enough of it that the display portion is unique, or worse yet (and IMHO unacceptable) sort them in order so you can make an eductated guess as to which is which. There is no country that I'm aware of where you want them ordered randomly when you have to guess what the invisble ending is. (anyhow the sorting should be locale specific)
Even strings which TT have complete control over (map set names) do not fit on the screen. The installer is awful. I installed Major Routes of America (212MB). I then installed Cities of America (55MB). What does the installer do? Puts it in the same directory as major routes and overwrites it with no notification to the user.
As for conforming to Windows guidelines, I agree that there are rare occassions where it's worth differing SLIGHTLY, but major changes (like not letting you get back to the today screen) - the same as running windows apps like internet explorers ór adobe acrobat's permanent full screen mode - is just wrong. Sure let users CHOOSE this mode, bt do not force it on them. Alan Cooper (UI Guru) makes a good point in the Inmates are Running the Asylum: it is good thing to copy MS Windows apps. Why, because people know how to use them. I have a Windows PC, a PPC PDA (after Palm) and recently a SmartPhone (after a brief, but awful dalliance with Symbion), and what I like the best is that they're all very similar. The apps look and feel the same, they work in a similar manner and I know how to do the stuff I need to do. You take an app like Navigator 2004 that fundamentally changes the way you intereact with the OS framework, and it's a real pain.
Alan Cooper also points out something else with respect to product development, that really is true (I was a software product manager for a global corporation, so I have experience in this). You should design for intermedaite users. New users quickly excel past beginner status; some people want to fiddle with millions of functions all day (advanced users); but the vast majority of users fall into intermediate and IMHO TTN3 was right there: just enough features to allow you to tweak things to your needs, but not so many that you needed a 1000 page user guide to explain all the geeky options. Sure, there will always be the people who juyst don't get technology, and the geeks who will never be happy until they've got the source code and can rewrite the bits they don't like.
What TT have done in 2004 negates most of the reasons I want a PDA navigation system. Besides the fact that I fly a lot, I want something where I can get up to date maps on a regular basis (TT have NEVER supplied this), more configurability (gone in 2004), more features than a regular in-car navi system (barely in 2004), and an eveloving (not regressing) feature set over time without having to change the entire navi system or car!
When I moved back to USA a few months ago, I actually considered getting a Go, as it wasn't much more than buying TT USA, a new CF card, and a new mount for my car, and my SmartPhone does almost everything I used to do on my PDA. The only reason I didn't was because the feature set was so poor. Now I've got the same poor feature set on my PDA.
Looks like TomTom are simply abandoning the Pocket PC market. That's their choice. I for one will take my business elsewhere unless they build on TTN3 rather than stooping to this lowest common denominator crap.
TTN4 is crippleware. Perhaps when they start losing revenue over this, they'll sit up and take notice.
Just to follow this interesting tread I need to know:
What do you mean about: "UI" and "IMHO".
I'm sit here in my own world up in the cold north, trying to learn something every day :P _________________ Gunnar Nystul, Forum Admin, TomTom Forum Norway and Nystul Navigasjon
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Intuitive
Mark_anderson_us wrote:
I installed Major Routes of America (212MB). I then installed Cities of America (55MB). What does the installer do? Puts it in the same directory as major routes and overwrites it with no notification to the user.
I do agree here, and I did also mention this particular problem in the review. (The numbers are actually 85 and 212, respectively)
This is indeed an interesting discussion, and it reveals the tension field between a company's vision (assuming they have one) and the "general public"s view of how things should be.
I'll have a read on the "intermediate user" paradigm - thanks for the info. (So far I knew only Jakob Nielsen) _________________ Lutz
Is it possible to keep my European TTN 3.07 on my Pocket PC, and install the new maps from new USA version, or do I also need to install the new Navigator 2004 application, because of different map formats?
I would prefer to continue to use TTN 3.07, and only change the map data when I travel between Europe and Canada.
Is this possible?
Do I maybe need this "special" TTN 3.07 US version that was talked about in the review?
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: Alan Cooper (off topic)
Hi Lutz
It's a great book. I canhighly recommend it. having worked in R&D, product management and marketing, I have experience of both sides.
Another thing Cooper says that I believe (and can defend TT a little is that if you continually enhance a product (according to users requests) it will die. It's critical to have someone in the comapny looking 3-5 years out and working on next gen stuff. Now, was certainly next gen for TT and if the commoin platform was part of that then they weren;t all wrong. It's also inevitable during such radicla (alhough it's not really radically) you will alienate and lose some customers.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: Tom Tom we pay yor wages!!
Great review
went on a journey the other day and three major roads were not updated on TT3....I was cossing fields!! Does this mean that before long TT3 will be useless? Can those at Tom Tom really be so blind and think they can bully us into changing products by not supporting what we want. Tom Tom are only around because of us and it won't take long before another supplier meets our needs. Tom Tom listen to those that pay your wages
since some have managed to use ttn go maps on ttn3, i'm really hoping future map updates will be compatible with ttn3. _________________ tomtom 940 live/tt active dock holder/tt rds-tmc traffic receiver usb
From what I have read.. I'll be shopping elsewhere, and this from someone who has been using TomTom before they were called TomTom.
The only way I'll buy this upgrade (because I use everything they have removed) is if the maps are backwardly compatable with 3.07T.
Time for the comparison database to be updated.
Has Pocket GPS world got a beta copy of the European Version I wonder?
Are they feeding their thoughts back?
Does TomTom give a stuff?
Do they read these boards, because WE, the hardened users are the ones who make the recommendations that people read....
Without them, they are left with Go at Dixons _________________ iPhone5, TomTom, Google maps, Navfree, Viewranger and Apple Maps (ekk)
Joined: Mar 01, 2004 Posts: 290 Location: Northampton
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:06 am Post subject: Routing options
Excellent review thank you. Its good to see the side by side comparison.
I can not see why people should be so upset to see that they have taken away the speed indicator. After all they do have a perfectly good spedo in the car and they should be concentrating on their driving anyway!
My major concern with this new product is the lack of an option to choose what roads you prefer. I often tow a caravan and have purchased sat nav to make these journeys easier and safer by not having to look at directions on the move. The last thing I need is for the software to automatically route me down a narrow road when a perfectly good alternative is available!
Its not to major when you are planning a journey using waypoints etc, but if you are using the traffic option and select a detour you have no control over where the system decides to take you.
I have purchased Copilot 5 which has a RV mode and works very well but this product is not as good as TomTom for routing voice instructions and the display image, and does not have the traffic option available yet.
A mixture of both products would be the best solution. _________________ Please follow me on twitter @mdyson1968
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