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RobBrady
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Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 2718
Location: Chelmsford, UK
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 Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: France To Get 60 Private Hidden Mobile Speed Cameras |
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Three French regions - Brittany, Pays de la Loire and Centre-Val de Loire - are set to get hidden mobile speed cameras in 2020.
Following a successful trial in Normandy in 2018, sixty automatic cameras will be operated by private firms from unmarked cars.
The French government commented: "Radar cars will operate on routes and time slots set by the State services according to local accident criteria. They will have equipment capable of reading speed limit signs allowing the radar to operate independently, without any intervention from the vehicle driver."
They added: "For speed measurements of moving vehicles, higher tolerance limits will be used."
French police already have 383 mobile speed cameras in unmarked cars, but do not have the resources to make best use of them. They are only operated for an average of one hour a day - hence the decision to use private contractors.
Thousands of fixed speed cameras across France were damaged as a result of direct-action protests against the French government's policy of reducing the speed limit from 90kph to 80kph.
Whilst the number of tickets will have reduced dramatically due to the vandalism, it's likely that when the new hidden mobiles are in place, many more drivers will be issued with tickets than before all the trouble started.
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TieJustice
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Joined: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:05 am Post subject: What’s the big deal |
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I personally don’t care. They can put as many cameras as they like. The only people that will complain about this is the ones that have no respect for others on and off the road.
As I use a camera on all my vehicles it would show IF I had been speeding so they can put as many hidden cameras as they like. It would not make any difference to me. |
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Rondeco
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Joined: Aug 24, 2013
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| So there ner ner! |
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DJL62
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Joined: Mar 07, 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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If speed cameras are supposed to be about road safety, what is the justification for not for being open about their use - i.e. using marked vehicles.
The use of private contractors, who will need to make a profit for the contract to be viable, means that there is an element of income generation involved. What safeguards are built in to ensure that these privateers will be correctly operating, maintaining and calibrating equipment so that alleged offenders can challenge evidence? |
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ScaniaUltimate
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Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:33 am Post subject: Different wolds |
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| Rondeco wrote: | | So there ner ner! |
I must admit this comment catches the tone of post#2 perfectly but I'm going to add a little more substance regardless.
I care & it is a big deal.
As someone who has had to fight a false charge of using a mobile phone whilst driving I can assure you that being innocent is not the easy ride TieJustice believes it to be. Although I was successful in my case it was 10 months of extra stress & inconvenience I could have done without.
When individual police officers who have no vested interest in the money they are collecting make false claims then I can assure you employees of private companies whose profit is made by the number of fines they collect will do so more.
Due to the pressures applied by the threat of increased penalties & charges innocent drivers will accept a charge rather than take on the extra risks of fighting a case. Once we put these powers of prosecution into the hands of private companies the innocent will be targeted too. Therefore even the (never yet seen) perfect driver will one day find himself caring that we allow private companies to chase money where the effort & cost required to prove your innocence is greater than the penalty. |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15257
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: What’s the big deal |
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| TieJustice wrote: | | I personally don’t care. They can put as many cameras as they like. The only people that will complain about this is the ones that have no respect for others on and off the road. |
I'm not sure I agree to be honest. These are private companies - a company exists to make money. How many corners will be cut to make that money? How much close to the speed limit will they decide to issue the tickets at in order to make that money?
Technically 1kmh over the limit is speeding so will that become the norm for these private companies to issue tickets at? What regulations are in place to stop them from doing that? Are the private companies still subject to stringent tests and certification and calibration of their equipment?
Private companies need to make money - they don't care about road safety... |
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domlaptop
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Joined: Mar 24, 2016
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: What’s the big deal |
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| TieJustice wrote: | | As I use a camera on all my vehicles it would show IF I had been speeding so they can put as many hidden cameras as they like. It would not make any difference to me. |
What are you saying? Who is driving all your vehicles? It sounds like you are a fleet operator monitoring your own drivers' behaviour.
I approve of the current situation where the location of cameras help road safety by being loacted in accident black spot, or similar. Usually then, only if you are blind or daft, should you get caught. It is good that local authorities, with their understanding of local features, help drivers by ensuring that they know about dangerous bits of road that appear to be innocent.
Covert cameras are, perhaps, for policing speed limits, as a tax. If such control is really needed, there are better ways, like the preventing cars from speeding instead of the drivers. Note that I do not approve of that either. |
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| You only have to look at private 'parking enforcement' companies behaviour as an example of what happens. Still that nice Mr. Corbyn will probably nationalise the along with all the other stuff he intends to, and then they will employ far too many people, work a two day week and make massive losses to the taxpayer. Isn't life wonderful. |
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Tom59
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Joined: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Alconbury - UK
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I can remember when I lived in Germany thirty years ago.
Deutches Telekom had “roadworks” at the side of the road, with a camera in the back of the van and a Police car 50m up the road.
These Europeans are very sneaky!
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Snudge
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Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Peterborough
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| DJL62 wrote: | If speed cameras are supposed to be about road safety, what is the justification for not for being open about their use - i.e. using marked vehicles.
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I quote from THIS article which clarifies the issue - it's about raising money.
| Quote: | Bedfordshire Police threatened to switch on automatic speed cameras on a stretch of the M1 and to fine any motorist who exceeds 70mph.
Olly Martins, the Police and Crime Commissioner for the area, claimed he had been left no alternative but to introduce the system, because his force was facing financial ruin.
Mr Martins claimed his force could raise up to £1 million a year, allowing him to pay for 25 front-line officers. |
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TieJustice
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Joined: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:41 am Post subject: |
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No I own and drive my own cars and motorcycles. I have enabled the speed on all my devices. No one drives my vehicles only me so I’m not spying on anyone but my self. I find the only people that complain about speed cameras or using a mobile device are the ones that brake the law.
If I was a company that had drivers for me I would still have them in stalled.
Any way if you can’t see a big yellow box and a warning sign and if you look online to find out where and when there out. Well you must be a inconsiderate person.
When you see the news about over 380 speeding tickets for just Saturday and Sunday as there where temporary travlo do to road works. On a 40mph road and one was going over 103mph.
I say bring more, no more stupid fines get rid of the driver that abuse the roads just so they can text there mates. Show off by speeding.
And yes a support the police on bad driving and will give my video to them if I see a dangerous driving. SNAP need your video so it can ban dangerous drivers.
You can now all troll this. |
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Engine_Counter
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Joined: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Derby, UK
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: |
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If you don't speed or break the law then it doesn't matter whether the speed camera is highly visible or hidden.
Personally I think hidden cameras are a good idea, they might catch some of the idiots who drive at 60 in a 30 limit, overtaking like lunatics, and then slamming their breaks on and cutting in when the next camera comes into view. These are the people we should be aiming to stop.
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15257
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Engine_Counter wrote: | If you don't speed or break the law then it doesn't matter whether the speed camera is highly visible or hidden.
Personally I think hidden cameras are a good idea, they might catch some of the idiots who drive at 60 in a 30 limit, overtaking like lunatics, and then slamming their breaks on and cutting in when the next camera comes into view. These are the people we should be aiming to stop. |
Regardless of how careful you are at driving there is always the chance that your speed can creep over the limit. Anything above the speed limit is breaking the law - but the police in the UK who officially say speed cams are for safety will generally follow the guidelines and have a fair threshold before prosecuting you. So 31, 32, 33 in a 30 would generally not be anything that gets you into trouble. But when it's a private company there solely to make money then these thresholds will decrease in order to increase their revenue. So a normal driver COULD then have something to worry about because it can lead to dangerous driving as you concentrate on your speedo instead of the road ahead.
Also what if these private companies measure your speed as 31 when actually you were doing 30? You've not broken the law so in theory you have nothing to worry about. However, these companies are there to make money and will do what they can to make your life misery and keep pestering you for the money. It will be up to YOU to prove that you weren't breaking the law and that their equipment wasn't right etc.
It's not about people actively 'breaking the law' - it's about law enforcement being run by private companies only doing it to make money. Even if you never speed, there's a chance that a private company could try say you were anyway.
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Snudge
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Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Peterborough
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: |
Regardless of how careful you are at driving there is always the chance that your speed can creep over the limit. Anything above the speed limit is breaking the law - but the police in the UK who officially say speed cams are for safety will generally follow the guidelines and have a fair threshold before prosecuting you. So 31, 32, 33 in a 30 would generally not be anything that gets you into trouble.
MaFt |
That's how it used to work (which most drivers accept as fair) and ACPO guidlines agree with what you say but with ref to my previous post - Bedford police have a zero tolerance to speeding so 31 in a 30 or 71 in a 70 gets you a ticket.
.....because as the article states - Bedford police need the money.
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15257
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Snudge wrote: | That's how it used to work (which most drivers accept as fair) and ACPO guidlines agree with what you say but with ref to my previous post - Bedford police have a zero tolerance to speeding so 31 in a 30 or 71 in a 70 gets you a ticket.
.....because as the article states - Bedford police need the money.
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But Bedford Police aren't a private company. They are law enforcement. They have type-approved equipment and follow a strict schedule for the calibration etc and make sure the correct evidence is available before pursuing a course of action
The French stuff is private companies. How long before they lower it to 30.1kmh just to get extra money... Or start faking results to get the money... |
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