Variable Speed Cameras om Motorways

jjmurphy · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 23, 2009 Posts: 43

I use M25 a lot and have, up to now, ignored variable speed cameras if no speed limit was showing. Recently, I used M4 and I was nabbed by a Hadecs camera in the variable speed section around Bristol. no speed limit was showing but I was done for exceeding the National, i.e. 70 mph.
Do different Police Authorities have different policies for use of these cameras on M-ways? I'm sure that if the Bristol policy applied on M25 I would have been done before now?

Kremmen · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:25 am Post subject:

We have posted here quite a few times that the new Hadecs3 cameras allow no leeway and are watching 24x7.

If you're doing anything over 70 then gotcha.

For the last decade+ all car speedos have, by law, to overread.

Mine overreads by about 6% so true 71 = just over 75.
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jjmurphy · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 23, 2009 Posts: 43

Thanks Kremmen.
I did search for previous posts but couldn't find any. You say that all HADECS are active all the time but this is not borne out by my experience of them on M25.
And, judging by comments in London Bikers forum, not by other riders either. Are you sure that different rules don't apply in different police areas?

MaFt · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:24 am Post subject:

It was a recent (last 12 months??) announcement that they would now be active at all times instead of just during the reduced speed limits.

I'm not sure if we posted it as a news item per se but it has certainly been mentioned by a number of users in the forums.

Basically, the rule is if there's a camera then assume it is active. No point risking it...

Kremmen · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:40 am Post subject:

From Pistonheads:

M8TJT · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject:

What speed were you doing when nabbed? Was it over the 10% =2 guidance or below? That would be really useful info.
Just assume that they all are on all the time. Takes all the guesswork out of it.

Kremmen · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject:

Hadecs3 are so accurate they don't use the old 10%+2 that traffic police often use.

Hadecs3 = 71mph and your nabbed via post.
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M8TJT · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject:

What evidence have you of that K?

Kremmen · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:24 am Post subject:

Drivers on various forums who have posted receiving a NIP for doing just over 70.

The most notorious one seems to be the one on the M25 down near the M23 junction. I've seen many moans from speeders about that one, many who had 71, 72, 73 on the NIP.
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MaFt · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject:

This is interesting. Looking at the Type Approval there is no mention of tolerance and calibration. The manufacturers tolerance should be on the calibration certificate but I can't find the manufacturers tolerance anywhere online...

No recording device is 100% accurate and there should be some kind of tolerance - and I'm talking camera tolerance not car speedo tolerance.

If the NIP says 71mph then they are saying that their speed readings are 98.6% accurate (1mph is 1.6% of the 70 speed limit so to prosecute at 71mph they are confirming it is accurate to that sort of speed difference).

If I got a ticket for doing 71mph on a motorway then I'd be asking for the calibration certificate to prove that they're actually allowed to use such a low tolerance and that the camera is actually that accurate. 1.6% tolerance.

When I got an NIP for driving in a bus lane at 18:29:46 for a bus lane that was active until 18:30:00 I questioned it as I usually leave it until my car clock says 18:34 just in case the clocks are wrong on the cameras or in my car. The council said "computer says no" so I looked into the accuracy and calibration etc etc because I was pretty certain they couldn't guarantee that their clock was accurate to that 14 seconds. The type approval for that camera stated that the clocks had to be calibrated to within +/-5 minutes (IIRC). They still claimed that I was in the wrong but cancelled the NIP based on the fact that they were saying their camera was more accurate than it needed to be but had no actual evidence.

The point I'm making is that regardless of what they send the tickets for, they need to provide evidence that their camera is that accurate to the thresholds in the manufacturers tolerance. However, I can't find any record of this for Dynniq or REDFLEX.

MaFt · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject:

Re buslane - I think the requirement is for the clocks to be accurate to within 10secs of the Rugby Source but the camera in question had a manufacturers tolerance of 1min.

The same point is made though - they were saying it was accurate to 10 seconds but the camera manufacturer couldn't actually prove that it was because they had quite high tolerance range.

Hopefully that all makes sense! Anyway, in a nutshell for 1mph over the limit I'd be questioning their accuracy and asking for evidence of that level of accuracy.

MaFt

Kremmen · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject:

Fair points.

My neighbour got a Gatso NIP for 33 a few years ago. He didn't contest it because when it flashed he looked at his speedo and that was showing 35.

I've never gone into it legally but I thought the rumoured 10% +2 was for police vehicles and police handheld radar where a tollerance can be applied.

Side note: Rugby no longer exists, it's somewhere in Cumbria now.
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M8TJT · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject:

HERE it is.

DennisN · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject:

Who the hell moved Rugby to Cumbria? On whose authority? Was this another instance of the nanny state deciding something without consultation or due process advertising - "Coventry must be moved to Cumbria because it begins with C". My brother used to live in a care home near Coventry (Royal Leamington Spa) - have they told him Coventry has moved?

On another note, because CamerAlert won't accept voice notes, I can't tell MaFt I'm on holiday in Greece and where - I usually submit a 160mph camera with a voice note saying `Happy not being on holiday cos' I am, here'.
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Kremmen · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject:

Not Rugby as such but the UK atomic time signal.
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