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Kremmen
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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You beat me to a similar post.
How dare they leave the cameras rolling when the limit is 70
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marksfish
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Many years ago, there was a programme on telly where the M25 motorway Police stated they would not usually prosecute anyone travelling under 90mph. Of course, that was in the days before cameras and when they a) used discretion and b) had to catch you physically rather than you saying "cheese" as you pass a camera.
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pillboxman
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Joined: Oct 15, 2005
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Location: Somerset, England
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Smart Motorway cameras remain on all of the time. When there is no speed restriction the national speed limit applies.
On the M5/M4 smart motorway around Bristol in the first few months after they were switched on thousands (I don't remember the exact numbers) of people were done for exceeding 70 when the speed restrictions were "off" while only a handful were done for exceeding the posted reduced speed limit.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Then perhaps the limit lights should be set to 70 to remind everyone of the NSL. Absolutely no excuse then, not that there is anyway. |
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Kremmen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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That's how I see it. All drivers know that that the maximum speed limit on public roads where no lower limit applies is 70.
If you go over 70 then you may get fined, as many thousands are.
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quarryjmiller
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Location: West Midlands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: Awareness |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | Does it not sound reasonable that they would have them set to 70 odd MPH when NSL is in force? |
No it does not sound reasonable, there were reassurances that the cameras would not be used in this way when they were introduced and if the way that they are being used has changed that information should be announced loudly and debated, a good many of us (including MPs) still have our doubts about the safety of Smart Motorways.
I am not condoning driving at inappropriate speed BUT does anybody really want a motorway full of drivers staring at their speedometers and trying to stay at a NSL set at a time when we were still using cross ply tyres and disc brakes were a novelty. |
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Kremmen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Awareness |
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| quarryjmiller wrote: | | M8TJT wrote: | | Does it not sound reasonable that they would have them set to 70 odd MPH when NSL is in force? |
No it does not sound reasonable, there were reassurances that the cameras would not be used in this way when they were introduced and if the way that they are being used has changed that information should be announced loudly and debated, a good many of us (including MPs) still have our doubts about the safety of Smart Motorways.
I am not condoning driving at inappropriate speed BUT does anybody really want a motorway full of drivers staring at their speedometers and trying to stay at a NSL set at a time when we were still using cross ply tyres and disc brakes were a novelty. |
My own view is totally the opposite.
In those days drivers didn't have the distractions of modern cars and there were far less on the road. What you seem to be arguing is that because cars are quicker to stop it's OK to drive faster. Thinking distance has probably deteriorated to compensate.
I worry that if allowed to increase you may now have texting drivers barrelling down the fast lane at more dangerous speeds on the premis that they won't get prosecuted.
Just my view though.
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sussamb
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: |
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K, agree fully. Some drivers can't even drive safely at 30 mph, sad fact is that in pretty much every poll that asks if drivers consider themselves 'above average driver' around 90% think they are, so given that average would be 50% that's roughly one in every two drivers over estimate their ability to drive 
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M8TJT
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Awareness |
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| quarryjmiller wrote: | | No it does not sound reasonable, there were reassurances that the cameras would not be used in this way when they were introduced |
Can you please point me to the relevant statement by 'the authorities' and also law that prevents their use in enforcing the NSL? I can point you at the law that says the maximum speed on a motorway is 70MPH unless a lower limit is in force. | Quote: | | and if the way that they are being used has changed that information should be announced loudly and debated, |
Why should it be announced when it's already covered in a widely known law that everyone should respect? Debated by who and to what end? | Quote: | | a good many of us (including MPs) still have our doubts about the safety of Smart Motorways. |
Do you/they mean that they are more dangerous than unmanaged motorways? If so, where is the hard evidence? | Quote: | | I am not condoning driving at inappropriate speed |
It seems that thei is exactly what you are doing as driving faster than the NSL on a motorway IS inappropriate. | Quote: | | BUT does anybody really want a motorway full of drivers staring at their speedometers and trying to stay at a NSL set at a time when we were still using cross ply tyres and disc brakes were a novelty. |
That's a silly argument, nearly always put up by people who don't like the legal speed limits. People are more than prepared to spend a lot of time looking at/playing with their satnavs/mobile phones/ iPads etc. etc. So surely they can spare a second now and again to check their speedo? That is of course if they are totally incapable of holding a reasonably steady speed below the speed limit.
@sussamb.
Isn't it lucky that so many people are above average drivers? I wonder what would happen if 50% were below average. Think of the accidents that would need your services. |
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DennisN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:32 am Post subject: |
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It is complete and utter rubbish to suggest anybody will "stare at their speedometers in order to maintain a speed below the (whatever) limit".
Anybody who can't stay within the speed limit with only "odd occasional glances" (not even, M8TJT, a whole second) at their speedometer is so incompetent a driver as to merit having their licence taken away.
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Dennis
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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But Dennis, they are almost certainly in the 90% of above average drivers as discussed elsewhere. 
I bet your 'glance' is not much less than a second by the time you take to shift your vacant gaze down a foot, refocused your eyes, absorbed the info that your eyes are telling your brain then the shifting/ refocusing bit back to the vacant gaze once more out of the front window.   |
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DennisN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm no good at sums, so I can't say (but I know you will) how far I travel at 83mph in the whole second I take to glance at my speedo, work out which way up it is, ask myself what the speed limit is, consider the pillocks who set this limit are pillocks and it's set too low, glance for another second at my satnav to check that the speed isn't what the speedo says and decide which I should believe, go back to the speedo and check the angle of the needle which should be heading 350 degrees for 72mph but only 268 degrees for 29mph (always remembering what gear I'm in because those degrees angles aren't the same in second gear).
Then pause to pick windscreen glass out of my face and unwrap myself from the steering wheel.
Actually, I never look at my speedo or satnav for the speed check, because as an accomplished musician, I know what speed I'm doing from the sound of my engine - F sharp in fourth gear is 29mph, B flat in fifth is 69mph. Sorted. (Only 17% of drivers are accomplished musicians).
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quarryjmiller
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Joined: Oct 10, 2007
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Location: West Midlands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Awareness |
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| DennisN, Moderator wrote: | | Half a page of quotations removed - their absence will not detract one iota from the following post, please don't do it. |
I don't disagree at all re distractions being a huge menace but a throng of drivers bunched together at a rigidly enforced 70mph speed limit all spending far too much time, driving far too close together and staring at their speedometer instead of the road and vehicles around them will inevitably result in a significant number who are bored out of their heads becoming far, far more likely to twiddle with their radio or reach for their phones.
My comments re tyres and brakes were not just about stopping distances or even just the vehicles - roads (I remember the time when the central reservation was just a strip of grass and I remember seeing drivers U turn on them) and signage have improved, visibility, comfort, ease of use, reliability - the list goes on, time has moved on and the NSL hasn't.
I am not disputing that speed cameras have a part to play but only if they command the respect and understanding of the motorists who are monitored by them. |
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sussamb
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Awareness |
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| quarryjmiller wrote: | I don't disagree at all re distractions being a huge menace but a throng of drivers bunched together at a rigidly enforced 70mph speed limit all spending far too much time, driving far too close together and staring at their speedometer instead of the road and vehicles around them will inevitably result in a significant number who are bored out of their heads becoming far, far more likely to twiddle with their radio or reach for their phones.
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And that just about sums up the 90% who insist they're above average drivers and that speed limits shouldn't be enforced because they're capable of driving faster in their modern car.
Yeah, sure, not
(hint: driving 'far too close together' has nothing to do with the speed traffic is driving at)
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quarryjmiller
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Awareness |
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| M8TJT wrote: | | quarryjmiller wrote: | | No it does not sound reasonable, there were reassurances that the cameras would not be used in this way when they were introduced |
Can you please point me to the relevant statement by 'the authorities' and also law that prevents their use in enforcing the NSL? I can point you at the law that says the maximum speed on a motorway is 70MPH unless a lower limit is in force. | Quote: | | and if the way that they are being used has changed that information should be announced loudly and debated, |
Why should it be announced when it's already covered in a widely known law that everyone should respect? Debated by who and to what end? | Quote: | | a good many of us (including MPs) still have our doubts about the safety of Smart Motorways. |
Do you/they mean that they are more dangerous than unmanaged motorways? If so, where is the hard evidence? | Quote: | | I am not condoning driving at inappropriate speed |
It seems that thei is exactly what you are doing as driving faster than the NSL on a motorway IS inappropriate. | Quote: | | BUT does anybody really want a motorway full of drivers staring at their speedometers and trying to stay at a NSL set at a time when we were still using cross ply tyres and disc brakes were a novelty. |
That's a silly argument, nearly always put up by people who don't like the legal speed limits. People are more than prepared to spend a lot of time looking at/playing with their satnavs/mobile phones/ iPads etc. etc. So surely they can spare a second now and again to check their speedo? That is of course if they are totally incapable of holding a reasonably steady speed below the speed limit.
@sussamb.
Isn't it lucky that so many people are above average drivers? I wonder what would happen if 50% were below average. Think of the accidents that would need your services. |
This article refers to the original plan
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/variable-speed-cameras.htm it was written When Smart Motorways were first introduced and sure enough, later articles (and the one that triggered this debate) suggest that the promise to only use the cameras to improve traffic flow were indeed nonsense. This should have been publicised.
This one to MPs comments re the safety of Smart Motorways
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/variable-speed-cameras.htm
The comment re looking at your speedometer is anything but silly, the next time you are stuck in traffic as you drive through motorway roadworks with average speed cameras have a look at the tight bunching and think about the consequences of somebody taking their eyes off the road at 70 mph in what will be the same bunched road conditions.
The NSL being set at 70 mph does not make it appropriate, poor weather conditions or, heavy congestion and many other factors may make it appropriate to drive at a slower speed, on the other hand - do we really want to prosecute a driver for doing 75 mph on an open motorway in clear conditions in the dead of night? That's what gantry cameras will do.
You have
c
Not so long ago we had a government in this country that wanted to introduce ID cards for everybody, it wasn't the public resistance that stopped them it was money, just like the Police Commissioner for Bedfordshire threatening to switch the gantries to enforce the 70mph limit on his bit of motorway just 12 months ago (read the first article) this is about revenue - not road safety - at least he had the good grace to admit it. |
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