Problems with CoPilot Live - Returning for refund

tedkay · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:29 am Post subject:

Hi Bohica

When you say 'minor faults' do you include:

Program Locking 'Memory Leak' - this is admitted and well documented on these pages.

No rivers or waterways on the maps.

Unhearable volume on Ipaq.

Abysmal Support and in-program help (apparently there is a manual on the CD – but you just try and find it. How strange to put it there and not have it in a folder called Manual where it can be found! That is just plain laziness and a total lack of thought for the user).

Dave has responded in his usual thorough manner and I very much appreciate his time. He has however had to concede that some of the failings I mention are faults which ALK is working on. If this was v1 of the software I would be a lot more forgiving of glitches (although not a glitch which freezes the app repeatedly because I for one do not consider having to keep pulling-over and resetting the PDA acceptable) but this program is well into development and I feel should have been throroughly tested and faults fixed before a new version was released.

I find it very strange that in a forum for discussion about users experiences with the software you should take such exception to my highlighting some of the failings it has. The forum would be useless if nobody reported problems.

Ted

xda · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:34 am Post subject:

Having followed this topic I thought I would add a few comments.
I used TT2 for the best part of a year travelling to differant clients destinations across the South, moving from on client to the next each day.
When TT3 was released I upgraded to it only to find half the clients I visited with TT2 could not be found in TT3 and that TT3 caused daily lockups if POI's were enabled.

When CoPilot Live 5 was released I decided to purchase for two main reasons, 1st because of the later release and better maps from Navteq and 2nd the fact that CP5's desktop would enable me to plan trips on the PC and copy to PPC.

Knowing from previous trials that no two programs are going to work the same even though the end result is the same and that there is going to be a learning curve to navigate through, I decided to remove TT completely, install CP5 thus removing the temptation to switch back to TT.

The first week was a steep learning curve, different screens and menus etc. Routing not always the way I wanted to go such as known short cuts on "A & B" roads to get on the M27. Then I found Waypoints added to the route made CP5 go my way, a vast improvement. I could save my trips, copy them to the PPC. Start CP on the PPC, tap on "Going To" - "New Trip" - "Saved trip" highlight the trip select next, up pops the trip with all the waypoints, tap "start Driving" and off we go.

The blue safety screen took a bit of getting use to as in TT I had the safety screen set to display at 72 MPH as a Speed warning, back to using the Speedometer again.

I initially installed the TTS, volume was acceptable at motorway speeds but took a bit of getting used to, information given was good. I did switch to using the WAVE files and although the Female voice was clearer and easier to understand but the POI warnings left a lot to be desired so switched bacK to the TTS, now I have got used to it that's how it will stay. Having spoken to Tech Support they said they are working on a UK Female TTS file.

Has CP failed to get me to my destination and back home again? NO. It even got me to the Stratford Manor meeting by using the Stratford Manor Hotel POI as the destination. Total distance covered using CP 2,885 miles with 32 saved trips on the SD Card.
Todate CP has never lost it's GPS position whilst travelling, starting a new trip is a matter of seconds after getting into the car as the GPS is on a permenant live feed and always has a fix.
Yes I've had CP lockup on a couple of occasions when forcing CP to re-route around an accident and after 3 or 4 forced re-routes in quick sucsession, that has now been cured by ALK.EU's latest patch.
The routing could be better but is easily solved by pre-planning the routes and using the waypoints.

Bye the way Dave for those that want the Compass that is available in the safety screen by tapping on the two information bars at the bottom of the screen and cycling through, compass comes up as mine did yesterday showing "North 012 degrees when travelling up a section of the A325 to Farnham. It can also be set from "Options, "Guidance" Custom Display "Heading".
Would I go back to TT? a big NO. There is a lot in CP5 it only needs finding, play with it use the screens everything is there and works like any software you use you need to spend time with it to get the best out of it.

Yes there are a few problems but I feel these are mainly down to Navtech and the mapping database being a bit sparce in places.
_________________
Graham.
TT Go720, App:9.510(1234792.1) OS:842337
GPS: V1.20, Boot: 5.5279, Home: V2.9.5.3093
Map: Europe V910.4892
Map: Europe_Truck V870.3421, Kingston 8GB SD
Nokia 925 Windows 8

kartracer · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:

tedkay · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:57 am Post subject:

Hi Kartracer

You said (ref absence of rivers and waterways): But CoPilot is, after all, sold to help you navigate to a location by road. Being a canal user I would also like to see the waterways on the maps, but their absence has no affect upon the purpose for which the program is sold.

But if you want to find a town or village (or any location for that matter) that is by the river or canal you can’t do it in CoPilot. That to me is a major minus. No other mapping software I have seen on PC or Pocket PC excludes waterways – probably because a lot of people like to know where they are in relation to the roads. What about the hundreds of thousands of anglers, boaters etc. who drive on the roads to get to the waterways? Anyway if your argument is taken to its’ logical conclusion there would be no other topographical information on the maps than roads. In fact the rivers are on the map as supplied by Navteq – it is CoPilots’ implementation of the maps which causes them to disappear. I too am a canal user – I have a narrowboat on The Kennet & Avon, and whilst I do not need or want to use SatNav on the boat it is very useful when planning a narrowboat trip to check out the canalside towns and villages by car. Similarly when looking for pubs and restaurants etc. I very often try to find them by the water because the settings can be lovely. (The Trout Inn on The Thames north of Oxford for instance).

You said (ref lack of manual on disc): It was installed on my PC where I would expect to find it, under: Start/All Programs/CoPilot Pocket PC 5/User Manual.

Actually the manual is in /Program Files/CoPilot/PocketPC5/App on my PC. It is in any case not a lot of use on the PC which I don’t take on the road with me. It covers very few of the issues that I and many others have had to seek clarification on through these excellent forums.

You said (ref lousy volume): Yes, it is pretty abysmal, but I found the same to be true of SmartST, and also TomTom unless you are prepared to accept distorted sound. I find it essential to use external amplification with any of them.

As I stated, my issue is that although not brilliant I can and regularly do hear the voice instructions in TomTom without external speakers. You really underline my point when you say that this is a known issue because if it is known why didn’t ALK take the logical step and up their volume to be better than the others? I find external speakers ugly and there is nowhere acceptable to put them in my car. I did buy the Arkon mount which works very well, but it is bulky, has leads going every which way and is not pleasing on the eye.

It is clear that some people have different needs than me, and possibly more time (or ability!) to go through what is undoubtedly a steep learning curve.

Ted

Bohica · Occasional Visitor Joined: Aug 24, 2004 Posts: 37

Canals & Rivers.............
Please!.If you want to use this for water navigation get yourself the right software.......Memory Map OS etc. I,ve used this software whilst on the Broads,and walking and it works.........
But no doubt someone out there will complain that there's a couple of Trig points in the wrong place or the PC interface in old-hat...
Note Pocket streets also works,again with some limitations,BUT unless your prepared invest the time to work with these tools why complain?

Pocket GPS World's web site as far as I'm concerned is THE premier site for problem solving,but you need to be realistic ........i.e Canals and PC5
Please.................

Skippy · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:19 pm Post subject:

kartracer · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject:

tedkay · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:48 pm Post subject:

Bohica

Before yoy get too apoplexic about the ridiculousness of the link between driving and waterways you may want to stop and consider what I actually said which was that people can be quite reasonably be expected to want to navigate to places alongside rivers or canals etc. In which case they will want to see the river/canal on the map. I specifically said that I did NOT expect CoPilot to be used for actually navigating ON the waterways - just for getting to them. Geddit? Anyway if it is such a ludicrous concept why does all other mapping software include the waterways?
Ted

Bohica · Occasional Visitor Joined: Aug 24, 2004 Posts: 37

Back to Reality methinks..........

If YOUR not happy with the software fine,get yourself a refund,but why malign a piece of software that works for most of us,with minor limitations .
Or will we be seeing the same sort of "evaluation" when you get the latest version of TTN?

tedkay · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:36 pm Post subject:

Bohica

Ah I see now - you think a forum is a place where you just say nice things about the software! No wonder we can't agree. There was me naively thinking that a forum was exactly the place to bring faults etc. (and good points) to other users attention. Malign is a strong word and certainly not appropriate here. In case you missed it ALK have acknowledged some of the faults I have mentioned and are said to be working on them. Lucky really, because if everyone decided to ignore the faults then nothing woud get fixed. There are many post on the forums concerning faults with software from many different companies. Do you intend to accuse every one of the authors of those posts of maligning the product?

For the record there are many features in CoPilot that I like, but in this thread I was concerned with the faults. If you object so strongly (heaven knows why) to seeing my reservations about CoPilot then why follow the thread. Start another one called 'I love CoPilot'.

Oh yes remember you said

topgazza · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject:

Ted is spot on in respect that reporting bad experiences are crucial to any board, Having said that I think the responses from Dave have been helpful but as far as he can go. I don't think anyone was suggesting that Ted not post his problems, at least I hope not!

If I may so bold and suggest that as Dave has an excellant relationship and is talking to ALK we look to see what response and timeline for fixing the, technical errors that Ted has brought up.

The general difficulty in using the software, to me, seems like frustration that it is not more "plug and play" than it is. Both a fair and unfair complaint(?) The software is what it is and any issue there will be different for each user. Maybe I can add more to the point when I get my copy of CP5. Good news is with all the tips and advice on this thread alone I think I can get round most of the user interface "problems". So from that point of view a thanks Ted for raising the debate.

alix776 · Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject:

ted ive run these together . these being tt3 and and copoilot at the same time and have to say im impressed with copoilot though i do really need to get it running on my xda to get the full benifits

the routing is slightly different and tt is more configerable the cp5 in that the routing can be change to make it go the way i want with cp if i dont like a road i keep going and it reroutes usually it take me the way i want to go

the ui is very good i like the display

the address look up is better than tt and mapping is so much better would i use it on its own in the truck over tt yes i just need to sit and play with it more

speed cameras yes the warning does take up the whole screen but you still have voice naivigation though i would like to see somthing like checkpoint developed

just have to do the updates to see it gets any better

really as said earlier all systems have there quirks it will get you from a to b maybe it wont take you the way you want but it is only an aid
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl

lavenham14 · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:14 am Post subject:

As a dedicated CP user 3,4 and now 5, :D Ted. I have to agree with Dave on all his pionts. I use the CP software every day, travel in excess of 30,000 miles a year in the UK and Europe and if I try really hard I might come up with one or two minor faults..like the TTS accent when speeking Italian or its stange pronounciation " millees" instead of miles when anouncing a POI. I have never got lost, been miss-routed or suffered any of the problems that seem to have plagued you. I think you need to sit back and reevaluate what you need this program for....its for guidance..an aid...if you need to look at road signs at all junctions after a very clear "take 2nd exit" and forget a 0.2 mile warning of a saftey camera within the 10 seconds it takes to pass it (you are below the speed limit after all..aren't you?) are you sure you should be behind the wheel at all? How did you ever get about before GPS technology became available? Get real and get a life!! Evil or Very Mad

tedkay · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:43 am Post subject:

lavenham14

Well aren't you the lucky one! For you the program doesn't:

Hang on PC during download requiring a CTRL ALT DEL before it can be restarted

Repeatedly hang on PDA despite having more than twice the stated required memory available - this happens every time I try to add stops to a planned trip (ALK have acknowledged this fault and say they are working on it)

Require extra speakers to be fitted to hear the voice instructions.

To name just a few things.

I'm not the only one to report problems you know, have you sent your nasty little personal remarks ('get real get a life') to the many others too? If getting a life in your opinion means accepting second best I think I'll stick with my way which is to complain when something I pay for doesn't work properly.

If I am so useless as far as the woeful POI alert system is concerned then why do you think so many people add GPSAssist or Checkpoint to their systems?
My point was that the POI alert screen often appears at a moment when you need to see the navigation instructions. It takes over the whole screen which is absolutely unneccesary.

You need to remember that these forums are for discussing good and bad points about the products. They are not there for people like you to make personal disparaging remarks. If that is what you want to do then go to some of the other forums on less well run sites than this one where everyone does it and the whole things becomes utterly pointless.
Ted

Dave · Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:09 am Post subject:

I think we should start bringing this thread to an end. Ted obviously feels that there are too many issues at heart for him to use CoPilot Live 5, and is returning the product for a refund. Personally I would think that spending a little more time might overcome some of these problems, but waterways and locking up (latter is obviously an issue with trying to use it) are Ted's main issues here.

I have addressed most of these issues with ALK and will continue to do so.

Although most people who do have CoPilot Live 5 are getting on with it swimmingly well, I think this thread shouldn't become a "leech Ted" thread. Ted's obviously spoke his mind on the problems he sees and perceives, we all either agree or agree to disagree on the items brought forward, and I think this thread should now be put to bed.

I still stand by my original comments, CoPilot Live 5 is what I believe to be a superb application. If it wasn't then I would be the first to be putting it down.

Anyway, enough said, lets hope we can put this to bed now. Ted, like I said in a PM, send it back quick and I hope you get the refund you're requesting.

On to another subject I'm actively talking to ALK giving them wish lists of new features that people would like to see. Please post your wishlists here and I'll pass these on.

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