Was Shot Down Russian Bomber A Victim Of GPS Error?

[Darren]

Debate is growing over the conflicting evidence surrounding the shooting down by a Turkish F-16 of a Russian SU-24 earlier this week.

Both Turkey and Russia have published what they claim is the flightpath of the bomber. Turkey claims it passed over the Turkish border whereas Russia claims it was within Syrian territory.

But it has been suggested that the error may be due to Russia's use of GLONASS for precision navigation in its aircraft. The Russian navigation constellation was designed for optimal accuracy in high latitudes and the design of the system may mean more positioning errors when used in this region.

None of this can discount the warnings allegedly given or the fact that Turkey admit the jet was only in their airspace for 17 seconds. Our recent post showing a Russian jet using a consumer grade GPS mounted on the instrument panel using elastic bands may also indicate that their military grade navigation equipment is not always available or serviceable.

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Darren Griffin

[adamf]

Where's the link for the story with the elastic bands thanks

[Privateer]

Hi adamf,

Have a look at the Garmin GPSMap Spotted in Russian Attack Jet news article and look at the picture, in the centre you'll see a Garmin GPS unit that appears to be attached to a cradle by an elastic band.

Regards,
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Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D

[taits]

Read today that Russia planned the crossover & the US knew about it, but Turkey did not. The streight line approach was the shortest distance at an edge of Turkey where the jet fighters were headed. The rationale for all this was a costly mistake, I hope many learned from it but I doubt it.
Maps where ISIS is shown to have control is troubling and need to be dealt with, imho.

[yladnhoj]

It seems to me the most likely explanation is their maps. Presumably Turkey has maps accurately showing where its border is but where do Russia get its maps from, do they know where the border is and how are they calibrated? Even 25k OS maps show footpaths slightly differently to 50k maps so which is correct?

[DennisN]

Hmm. Do you think the map differences would cause the two countries to be arguing over the distance of 17 seconds of high speed warplane flight? Footpaths a few yards out is hardly the length of one of these planes and even half a mile is surely much less than 17 seconds at a gazillion miles an hour?

Personally I believe the Russians were deliberately bullying the limit and Turkey was deliberately over-reacting.
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!

[taits]

Seems the story changed last night whereby Russia did not mention the border crossing, only the flight. USA and Russia have been at war with words and non disclosure for ever. Doubt it will change.
As for 'maps', when I serven in the mil in the 60's, LORAN was the navigation means. Accurate to a wide margin of say 3 yards to ??? times that depending on terrain. These days a dime cam be picked up in space and accurate mapping far more accurate than civilian GPS.
As for shooting down a plane because of a narrow breach of air space as here, I think ythere has to be some other reason besides intrusion of space. But no matter, it surely was know of should have been, that both sides would retaliate in some form, which would snowball as it has and likely get worse.

[Oscargrouch]

10 warnings in 17 seconds of being in Turkish air space; Think I smell a 'RAT'

[Oscargrouch]

[sussamb]

Seems the warnings were given on approach to Turkish airspace and aircraft was fired on once it entered Turkey ...
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Where there's a will ... there's a way.

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