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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: Accepted tolerances on speed limits
I have been advised by a friend who is an extremely experienced driver (does Drive and Survive assessment courses and frankly in my opinion is seriously OTT - but he earns a living!) that the old 10% + 2mph is a thing of the past, in other words, you can be prosecuted for 31mph in a 30mph area.
Can anyone elucidate. Is this true?
If so it smacks of a new revenue initiative by HMPC.
I prefer to drive watching the road ahead and, by experience knowing that I am within an mph or two close to the posted speed limit. I do not want to drive with my vision fixated to the speedometer so that I am totally oblivious to what is happening in front or around me.
Having been a qualified driver for 53 year who due to my profession have done a myriad of specialist driving courses (including IAM and Drive and Survive plus several others, industry specific) I find this very worrying. I have so far driven professionally until retirement with just 2 parking tickets, one of which was questionable, I do not wish to blemish a seriously good driving career by some little insignificant jobs-worth who wants to nick me for 1 mph over the limit.
Is all this true. Any thoughts or advice?
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7191 Location: Reading
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:49 am Post subject:
I'm sure I've read somewhere that the new HADECS3 cameras being rolled out along some motorways is on the lookout for 71mph+ _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Accepted tolerances on speed limits
chrissuk2000 wrote:
I do not want to drive with my vision fixated to the speedometer so that I am totally oblivious to what is happening in front or around me.
What a common load of drivel this is! Then drive at a speed that is well within the speed limit and you won't have to.
Quote:
I do not wish to blemish a seriously good driving career by some little insignificant jobs-worth who wants to nick me for 1 mph over the limit.
The 10% + 2 was only ever a ACPO recommendation, not the law.
Quote:
Is all this true. Any thoughts or advice?
You expect to get a definative answer here? I think you will have to ask the Chief Constable of your area of interest what his recommendations are. But please let us all know what the answer is when you have done so. [/rant]
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Accepted tolerances on speed limits
M8TJT wrote:
chrissuk2000 wrote:
I do not want to drive with my vision fixated to the speedometer so that I am totally oblivious to what is happening in front or around me.
What a common load of drivel this is! Then drive at a speed that is well within the speed limit and you won't have to.
Here we go again. We are all used to your rants about this.
Accept the fact that the speed limits are artificial constructs, often with no bearing on safety concerns and therefore many people (not all but maybe the majority) wish to work right up to the acceptable limits or even to break the law "slightly".
(and if you don't think that is an extremely common thing in ALL walks of life, then you live in cloud cuckoo land). _________________ "Settling in nicely" ;-)
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Accepted tolerances on speed limits
Andy_P wrote:
Accept the fact that the speed limits are artificial constructs, often with no bearing on safety concerns
I do
Quote:
and therefore many people (not all but maybe the majority) wish to work right up to the acceptable limits or even to break the law "slightly".
Then they, like me, should be prepared to glance at their speedos more frequently and not bleat about having to do so. Not doing so is an invalid reason for speeding.
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15356 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject:
Legally, you can be prosecuted for driving 30.1mph in a 30mph zone. However, because some people can actually be sensible, the official guideline (NOTE: guideline, not law) is that police etc give 10% +2 leeway to a) take into account minor fluctuations on speedo accuracy and b) most importantly, to reduce paperwork for police to have to deal with millions of 'pointless' law breaking...
chrissuk2000 wrote:
I do not want to drive with my vision fixated to the speedometer so that I am totally oblivious to what is happening in front or around me.
M8TJT answered:
What a common load of drivel this is! Then drive at a speed that is well within the speed limit and you won't have to.
Quote:
Quote:
and therefore many people (not all but maybe the majority) wish to work right up to the acceptable limits or even to break the law "slightly".
M8TJT Answered:
Then they, like me, should be prepared to glance at their speedos more frequently and not bleat about having to do so. Not doing so is an invalid reason for speeding.
M8TJT Make up your mind _________________ Moto G5s Plus, Sygic 17.4.8
Last edited by aj2052 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:31 pm Post subject:
The handle is M8TJT not M8TJH.
I have made up my mind. My advice to the OP was to drive well within the speed limit. That does not necessarily mean that I do the same. But I don't go on about having to have "my vision fixated on the speedometer so that I am oblivious to what is happening in front or around me". Instead, I look out of the window to overcome this particular problem with an occasional glance at the speedometer, which is what I suspect everyone who uses this particular 'argument' does as well.
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:55 am Post subject: Bloody hornets nest.
Sorry, it was a simple question. I seem to have opened a hornet's nest.
I am out of here. If this is the way so many of you react to a simple question, you need to get a life.
In particularly, I did not expect the sanctimonious hostile drivel from M8TJT.
As you can see, I am a very occasional visitor to these forums. Now I realise that is a good thing as I live a very happy and contented life away from the vitriol and hostility that seems to pervade some of these forums.
I do not usually exceed the speed limit, that is not to say I didn't in my youth, but I think I am a little older and wiser now. however, I also do not drive 10mph below the posted limit, "just to be sure" as I assume M8TJT does.
When I took my Advanced Drivers Course, I was taught to drive at the best possible speed. In other words, if the posted limit was 70 mph and the conditions were favourable, I was expected to drive at 70mph or whatever the speed limit that applied.
That said, I would much prefer to keep my eyes on the road around me, rather than staring at the speedometer. I think it is safer. So if in my stupidity I happened to drift 1 mph over the limit and be prosecuted, I do believe I have the right to be a bit miffed.
Many thanks for the constructive and informative responses.
As for the rest, particularly M8TJT, if you have nothing constructive or positive to say, it is best to say.............
I will not be participating in this discussion any further. I have received the information I requested so thank you and good night, I have better things to do with my life than discuss nonentities with bitter people.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14906 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:17 am Post subject:
Yes, it's a simple question and YES it opens a hornet's nest EVERY time it is asked. Because those of us who believe in observing the speed limits are irreconcileable with those of us who consider it their God given right to decide what the speed limit should be.
My views are pretty well known on here and I agree with M8TJT.
If you don't want a speeding ticket, don't speed.
If you are a multi years experienced driver, you should be able to manage that without bleating about "involuntarily, inadvertently, occasionally, drifting, momentarily" and all the other daft words.
I have yet to come across a car speedo which is accurate, which does NOT read over the actual. When they were 10% wrong, 33mph meant you were doing the limit in a 30 zone. 77mph meant the limit on the motorway. Are you telling me that a multi years experienced driver is not aware his speedo reads 33 or 77? That an experienced driver would teach his son/daughter to drive at 33mph during their driving test in town? That the IAM would test you driving at 33mph in town or 77mph on the motorway? Baloney! If your speedo shows 31 in town, you are within the speed limit. If it shows 73 on the motorway, you are within the limit. BUT any driving examiner would fail you! Those are the "tolerances", use your skill and judgement gained over decades of driving to drift, momentarily, unintentionally, inadvertently, up to those limits.
Whether the speed limits are justifiable is absolutely irrelevant, they are what they are. Feel free to start/join a campaign to get them changed, but in the meantime, obey them - every other road user has the right to EXPECT you to drive below the limit AT ALL TIMES and they behave accordingly, so when you speed, you are an extra danger to other road users. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Bloody hornets nest.
chrissuk2000 wrote:
I also do not drive 10mph below the posted limit, "just to be sure" as I assume M8TJT does.
Wrong assumption. But I don't go on about 'momentarily drifting', etc.
I answered the OP in my first post insofar as the ACPO recommendation was an 'allowance' of 10% + 2MPH. But it is rumoured that some CPOs are now enforcing the the actual speed limit and if you have a tendency to 'inadvertently drift' over the limit, and are concerned that you will pick up a ticket, then drive well within the posted limit. What I did not say is that I necessarily follow my own advice because I don't inadvertently drift' over the limit, I know when I am doing it, but I don't do it often. So that answers the 'sanctimonious' aspect.
If your speedo shows 31 in town, you are within the speed limit. If it shows 73 on the motorway, you are within the limit. BUT any driving examiner would fail you!
I've been a car driver since Noah built a boat and have 17 years no claims, but a few months ago I decided to take a course and test for my full motorcycle licence.
During my training, the instructor was insistent that I aim to travel at 'a couple of mph OVER the speed limit'. Surprising, as common sense would suggest that one should aim for a couple of mph UNDER, and that was what I had been doing. I suppose I should have queried this, but I was there to get my ticket and had other issues to focus on, so I just did as he said.
On the test (mod 2, pursuit) I spent a good 70%+ of the route 'a couple of mph over' and there is absolutely no way that the examiner could not have noticed.
Result? A pass, no minor errors, and a comment from the examiner "That is the best demonstration ride I've seen for several months".
Sometimes things are not as straightforward as one might expect.
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