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Joined: May 12, 2008 Posts: 36 Location: Northwest England
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:17 am Post subject:
My two pence worth.
Two things.
As a 'One Camera Lifer' I feel that there seems to be a bit of an attitude about us which is rather unpleasant. My lifestyle and employment means that I only do about 12,000 miles a year. Almost all my mileage is done on the daily grind of plugging my way to and from work each day. Driving in my free time tends to be local as well, so I simply don't get the opportunity to flag up loads of locations. Only the occasional day trip or holiday takes me out of the usual local area. I suspect that this is actually the case for the vast majority of 'One Camera Lifers'.
OK moaning over.
As a Lifer I am quit happy to forgo the LFM if it will keep the site going. However, as many others have pointed out there still needs to be some incentive to camera spotters. So I am with GeoffCee and Burtonian, offer a 50% discount on the annual subs. That way there is still an income stream even from the Lifers.
Let's face it, the cost of the subs compared to the points on your licence is diddly squat, never mind the fine.
Personaly, I'd bring it in for all existing Lifers, although I can understand the teams reluctance to pull the plug on their existing Lifers.
Well that's my thoughts. Which ever way the team decide to jump I will still remain a member. _________________ If it ain't broke, yer not 'ittin it 'ard enough....
Dennis, I hope you'll re-read the rest of what I wrote in that earlier post. I believe we're already agreed that the existing award (note award, not perk) for new camera spotting must be curtailed and replaced by some other, short-term award. But completely removing existing awards may be counter-productive if many (not including me) are alienated so much that they refuse to pay full subs. So I disagree with you, offering reduced subs to existing lifers is not death by 1000 cuts, it's a practical way of getting additional regular income from all current lifers.
I have noted several comments on age and reduced mileage (this time I do include myself). I wonder how many of us only download the latest database a few times during the year, when we are going 'off patch', and whether this may be a reason why some non-subscribers baulk at paying (excellent value though it is)? So maybe there's a further option of increasing contributions by having a 'single download' charge?
Joined: Aug 30, 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:51 am Post subject:
I think there will have to be a form of encouragement or incentive to report cameras, otherwise the site may "wither on the vine" due to lack of new information, rather than death by 1000 cuts or otherwise. _________________ Chris B
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:10 am Post subject:
burtonian wrote:
Dennis, I hope you'll re-read the rest of what I wrote in that earlier post.
With that avatar you get my undivided attention - love it (and love driving through to get a whiff)!
The reason I wanted a poll, was for existing Lifers to vote on withdrawal. I said I expected overwhelming support. Sadly I was too incompetent to set up a poll to my precise specification, so the results are unclear - 2:1 in my favour just now, but I've no idea who's voted and I only know one Lifer who has - me! Several have posted that they'd happily forfeit Lifership, but I don't know if they've voted.
Counter-productive? - there was another contributor who pointed out that losing the membership of alienated Lifers wouldn't lose the site a penny - I can't remember if he was the guy who advised pgpsw to get with commercial reality? And others have opined that some get their Lifership then leave it alone, but the repeat submitters would carry on doing so, come Lifership or no. Like Marmite, innit? Love it or hate it!
I think pgpsw have to come up with something which they can manage - it would be counterproductive if the existing admin became overwhelmed with a system of variable rates and variable periods. A simple withdrawal of Lifership puts an end to it. Award a six or twelve month extension for a qualifying submission, give existing Lifers the extension to start with.
Roydaboy be in no doubt that your subscription was valuable. The vast majority of members are just like you, make a submisiion if they come across one, but on regular driving never have the chance to spot more. Others, like me, are out and about all over the countryside, so naturally we get more oportunity to help the site. That's the way it is and you are no less a member than I and the other regulars, we just have different lifestyles (but I won't talk to you if I win the lottery this week!).
If I'm lucky, I'll get a call to go earn soon, so I'll probably hear the results of the "vigorous debate behind the scenes" whilst on mobile. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 3219 Location: Windlesham, Surrey
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:27 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
. . . I've no idea who's voted and I only know one Lifer who has - me!
Make that two! I voted for withdrawal as soon as the poll appeared. _________________ Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1130.12368
Samsung Galaxy S21
Nice to see a fellow Marmite Mate! I don't think we're a million miles apart in our thinking, and I'm sure The Management will make the correct decision after taking all known views into consideration. As for the Poll - I hope the next election isn't decided on such a small turnout
Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 56 Location: Telford, West Midlands
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:05 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
Anita, burtonian, GeoffCee, bradders2 and anyone else - the reason I wrote FULL recurring subscription was precisely because of these suggestions - it seems to me that awarding lifetime reduced subscriptions is introducing death by a thousand cuts instead of the axeman, just takes longer to go down. If Darren goes for volte face, reduced subs would be another millstone, just for the sake of save face!
I'll have to take your word on the "death by a thousand cuts" scenario as I'm not privy to the membership stats, nor do I know how many freeloaders (including myself) are benefiting from the contributions of others. What I am sure of is that in the five years or so that I've been a member of PGPSW there has not been an increase in the membership fee and neither have charges been introduced for accessing poi libraries.
This site sells information but it appears exceedingly naive in managing its affairs. Evidence of this is the over-generous way it has gone about rewarding its camera spotters and the current endless membership debate on a possible course for the future, which is running to 12 pages and counting.
When, if ever, will the Team get a grip on the situation, agree a plan, bring the endless jaw-jaw to a conclusion and simply deal with the financial mess PGPSW is in?
This site is worth saving and I would happily restore my contribution arrangements in full if that would ensure its survival.
Last edited by GeoffCee on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Aug 30, 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:17 am Post subject:
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of GeoffCee, if that is what it takes to keep the site going supplying invaluable weekly updated database releases and all the other good things. _________________ Chris B
A simple withdrawal of Lifership puts an end to it
"To prevent this thread going downhill any further, we've had a discussion and whatever happens with the lifer award for future subscribers, those who have been awarded to date will not lose their life member award. That is agreed and will not change"
The only realistic options are the traditional ones which face all businesses:
1/ Increase the fee to use the database.
2/ Increase the user base and keep the cost to use the database the same.
3/ Reduce the cost of maintaining the database.
Combination of all three with additional revenue streams.
Traditionally, option 3 is first - redundancies and reductions in overheads and expenditure.
Reduced costs may leave additional revenue which can be spent on option 2: increasing the user base.
Option 1 is an option of last resort as it could diminish the customer base.
Joined: May 08, 2006 Posts: 252 Location: West Midlands. UK
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:
For various reasons if the cost of subscription should increase I for one will not be renewing my subscription.
This decision is based on the fact I have continued over the last few years to renew my subscription out of habit more than anything and not out of really needing the camera database because since retiring I very rarely even go over 1,000 miles per year, (last year 700, the year before 800) and public transport from where I live to nearly everywhere I want to go is excellent. _________________ (If it ain't broke, I can soon fix it)
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My lifestyle and employment means that I only do about 12,000 miles a year. Almost all my mileage is done on the daily grind of plugging my way to and from work each day. Driving in my free time tends to be local as well, so I simply don't get the opportunity to flag up loads of locations. Only the occasional day trip or holiday takes me out of the usual local area. I suspect that this is actually the case for the vast majority of 'One Camera Lifers'.
