Will Garmin Improve Their Live Traffic Data In The UK?

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

As a London based mini-cab driver the amount and quality of traffic data delivered to my PND (Nuvi 1690 ATM) is of great importance to me.

I've always felt an affinity to Garmin devices but have recently been feeling envious of the HD traffic date supplied to Tomtom units. Most of my journeys are on trunk roads so this kind of 'HD' data is important to me as it can be critical for routing at busy times (it's nearly always 'busy' in London).

TBH I was almost on the verge of switching allegiance to Tomtom when they announced the Tomtom Go 1000 but some initially disappointing Go 1000 reviews and the introduction of Garmins Nuroute technology have made me decide to wait a little longer. I've still never seen any detailed explanation of how this technology might compare to Tomtom's IQ routing in the real world though.

I believe that Navteq provide Garmin's excellent mapping data within Europe and also their traffic data for live services in some European countries however the traffic data is provided by Trafficmaster in the UK.

Navteq's traffic detail detail seems to be streets ahead of that offered by Trafficmaster in the UK now (as judged from their live website display). Does anybody know if Garmin have any plans to upgrade their live traffic data information within the UK or swap/add a data supplier?

At the end of the day my next purchase will be based upon purchasing a PND with the best routing at any given time through London's busy traffic. I'd be willing to delay any decision a few months for Garmin to catch up in the UK but might switch loyalty if no improvements in the traffic data are planned in the very near future.

Would you advise me to switch to Tomtom (based only upon superior routing/traffic data) or wait for Garmin to catch up in the UK?

JoshT · Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject:

my biggest gripe with Garmin is they have not addressed problems with poor TMC reception on my Nuvi 300 & 660 - 4 years! I have vowed never to buy another Garmin product again.

I now use TT on my iphone. IQ routes and HD traffic are very good.

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

If the TMC service hasn't improved in the past 4 years in the UK then I doubt if it will now. I'm guessing that any future investment by Garmin would be into current or future 'connected' type services.

In all honesty I'd be pretty happy with the traffic information supplied to my connected Nuvi 1690 if it wasn't for the fact that I know better data is available, and offered in the UK. I wonder about the nature of Garmin's contract with Trafficmaster for UK traffic data....are they free to supplement it with additional live data? i.e. Navteqs data recently upgraded since their deal with Nokia, or will we be 'stuck' with the Trafficmaster data at least until any contract expires?

When all's said and done, as a professional driver in a large, busy city it's the quality of the routing that is the most important to me. Despite always using Garmin products in the past it does seem to me that they let go of the ball by taking so long to respond to Tomtom's IQ routing and I wonder if they will drag their heels in a similar fashion by not responding quickly or effectively enough to Tomtom's HD traffic in the UK ? Actually I'd like to see them lead rather than respond or are those days gone?

The 3700 series shows some great promise in terms of interface and display technology, they seem to have the edge there but I'm seriously considering forsaking that advantage for Tomtoms better routing.

v0n · Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject:

It is swings and roundabouts unfortunately - Tomtom Live Traffic might look like a better option for those willing to pay subscription fee but it comes at price of having to put up with it being a Tomtom. And after using Tomtom for many years (since version 2 on PDA) I grew tired of them constantly regressing and I am currently looking for another alternative:

- Tomtom map data is really, really old - as an example - Chatham in Kent has two way traffic in town center since October 2006. Latest 855 Tomtom map still thinks it's one way and attempts to send me for a 3 mile detour every morning.
- One frame a second screen refresh is getting old. My god, five minutes with google maps on mobile phone and you realize just how incredibly last century TomTom slow, three-jpgs-per-roundabout screen redrawing is.
- Simplifying interfaces across multiple devices and countries takes its toll with each release. Simple, every day examples - Tomtom 3 software could understand congestion charge operates within static hours on certain days. In 2010, Tomtom 9 software, streamlined and simplified all PAYG areas to universal definition and now tries to avoid Central London as presumed "toll road" at 1am on Saturday. Progress.
- £50 a year for traffic updates does feel a bit over the top. Building dependency on services acquired over mobile data is not that useful to anyone traveling frequently abroad.

Wazza_G · Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject:

I'd love it if they did improve their traffic to the standard of TT's HD Traffic system & I'd be willing to pay for it too.

There's just two things wrong with the Garmin that I've now got on "loan" (the old man can think again about having it back!).

1/ The eccentric routing

2/ Lack of decent quality traffic advice.

If they were to fix these, they'd knock TT out of business.

Garmin, if you're listening it's over to you! Smile

_________________
Be alert.. This country needs more lerts.

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

There are two ways that I could see Garmin's live UK traffic data improving.

1. They change or add a data supplier, of course this will depend upon the nature of their contract with Trafficmaster. ATM Navteq do appear to be offering the best data and I find it frustrating that for some reason Navteq were not selected to provide the live UK traffic data when they provide both the raw Garmin mapping data and also the live traffic data to Garmin live services in many other countries. I wonder if any contract Tomtom might have with Navteq in the UK excludes them from providing this live traffic data to Garmin?

2.Trafficmaster upgrade their live UK traffic data.

It really does frustrate me that in the UK I can have a Garmin PND that is superior to a Tomtom product in several ways but falls short of some Tomtom units in terms of it's most basic and important function; routing.

mikealder · Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:35 am Post subject:

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

Thanks for providing details of where Tomtom obtain their HD traffic data. Are these HD traffic delivery breakdowns common? Nothing would frustrate me more than losing traffic data on a Friday afternoon. I wonder to what extent IQ routing helps by knowing and allowing for average Friday afternoon road speeds? Has Garmin's Traffic trends technology shown any signs of being effective at peak times yet?

I guess the issue of somebody being happy to pay for traffic data is subjective. If I lived in a quiet or remote part of the country then it's usefulness would be limited to those times that I ventured further afield and I might not consider paying for a high quality service worthwhile. As it happens I drive everyday in the busiest part of the UK to earn my living and am prepared to pay.

So many questions and decisions to be made. At the moment I believe that by switching to Tomtom I will get better routing through traffic and that is the most important factor for me. Of course it could just be the grass being greener on the other side of the fence and in other ways I love the Garmin 1690.

I might try using Tomtom's software and HD traffic service on my Iphone 4 to see how I like the routing over Garmin. Ultimately I think I will purchase a separate PND but don't mind spending a bit to find out if Tomtom might suit my purposes more.

jdgwinnell · Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: London traffic

Two things to be wary of: (1) once nuRoutes has a lot of data to use, the recalculation slows to a crawl as it has so many variables to consider depending on the time of day. Several times in London I've triggered 'recalculating' either because I've disobeyed instructions or the 3790 has lost the plot, and had to move on and take decisions about where to go before the recalculation has finished - if I get it wrong, it then does it all over again. Even when it gets the outcome in time, it can suggest some peculiar back roads in order to keep you off the trunk roads it thinks are congested at that time of day (regardless of any traffic info it's received);
(2) even with the upgraded firmware in TMC 35, large parts of London are an RDS traffic signal blackspot - so no matter how good or bad the data (and it's often out of date) if you can't receive it, it's no use.
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J D Gwinnell
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nuvi 3598LMT-D
Montana 650, Oregon 650

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

Thanks for your comments,personally I'm not considering any other form of live traffic data delivery other than 'connected' type services. I realise that many do still use TMC but I just don't see it as the way ahead so my next PND will be connected.

Have you noticed the nuroute technology resulting in different routes at different times of day? I have read much about how much slower route calculations and recalculations are with it selected and I wonder if it is worth it?

I've compared Tomtom routes via their web based route planner and usually I prefer or agree with the route suggested by Tomtom rather than that suggested by my Nuvi 1690 at the same time and with traffic info and avoidance activated. I use my general experience of London traffic in my area when deciding which route I think would be best.

Of course my 1690 does not have the Nuroute technology. I'd love to be able to put a Tomtom Go 1000 up against the new Garmin Nulink 1695 before making a choice.

jdgwinnell · Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject:

Should have said, I turned nuRoute off because it was unusable. Sounds as though you're better off sticking to the 1690.
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J D Gwinnell
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nuvi 3598LMT-D
Montana 650, Oregon 650

xtraseller · Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: HD Traffic

I've switched from my Garmin 765t to the TomTom Go 1000 with HD Traffic and would say that the traffic information, routing and reliability is superb

The only advantage of the Garmin (or Navteq) data over TeleAtlas (TomTom) for me would be road speed accuracy - with Navteq wining hands down

With the TomTom arrival times have proved very reliable, even considering traffic etc
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Nexus 6p, Apple iPhone 6sPlus and Microsoft Lumia 950xl running TomTom, Garmin, CoPilot, Navigon, Sygic, Here Drive, Google, Waze, MS Maps

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

Thank you for your responses. In the end I bought the Tomtom application for my Iphone 4 and took a months subscription to the HD traffic service.

My conclusion after much testing is that the routing through the London traffic is far superior on the Tomtom application. Although there are advantages to having a stand alone PND I've decided to put my Nuvi 1690 up for sale.

deano777 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 14, 2005 Posts: 12

having both a iphone 3GS with tomtom and HD traffic subscription and a 3790T On average I prefer the Garmin overall.

The tomtom HD trafic is nice and appears to work well, although at times it has made some very bad decisions!!! from Cannock to Kidderminster on a Friday leaving at 4pm wanted to send me down the M6 so i went through Wolverhampton.

The nuroutes (or what ever its called) certainly work on the 3790T and in my experience are comparable to TOMOTM's IQ routes.

I prefer Garmin's routing to TOMTOM's also. I've used TOMTOM's upto I got my 610T then a 765T and now a 3790T having had experience of TOMTOM's and the iphone app I would still go with the Garmin 3790T even with RDS TMC which is crap.

My ideal device would be the 3790T form factor and hardware with live services, with traffic dated provided by NAVTEQ maybe some rime in the future.

kraftykarl · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 08, 2006 Posts: 8

Thanks for the response deano777. Well this application is my first real experience with Tomtom. I've used Garmin for years now and still like their PND's.

It did cross my mind that the Tomtom Iphone application offers the best of both worlds by having the the benefits of Tomtoms HD traffic information and IQ routing without having to put up with reported shortcomings in their hardware and operating software. Route calculations on the Iphone application are very fast.

I'm still convinced that the Tomtom application offers me much better routes through London than my connected Nuvi 1690. Of course my 1690 does not have Nuroutes to compare but nobody seems to have much good to say about Nuroutes ATM. For example, if the A41 and A40 were congested my 1690 would always try to route me into London on the A5 from NW London. The A5 into London is nearly always slow and I'd rather do the back doubles that run along parts of the A40 than take my chances on the A5 when other routes are busy, perhaps Nuroutes has put an end to this kind of thing but detailed information as to how well it works has been so hard to find. The traffic information on the 1690 was always pretty good actually, my grumbles were with how it tried to route me around the problems..great in quieter places but in London the 1690 had an unrealistic expectation of road speeds on A roads and would send me on detours that just got me bogged down in every day local traffic. With the Garmin I was always having to overide it's suggested routes even if the traffic information was still useful.

I agree on your ideal PND...if they'd have made the 3790 a connected device from the word go they would have had my cash already. If they release such a device in the future and improve their traffic information to match HD traffic then Garmin probably get my loyalty to them back.

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