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Just try finding somewhere to stop to read a map or use the phone. Its almost impossible.
Maybe cars should be build to only carry the driver in case they get distracted talking to the passenger(s).
Satnav is indespensable on an unfamiliar road especially where the environment is littered with road signs telling what you can't do.
As an aside, with speed enforcement so important, can anyone tell me a) what proportion of the time should you take your eyes off the road to read the speedo b) why isnt speedo accuracy part of the MOT?
Like cars, whether we've needed mobile phones in the past or not, the fact is that people now rely on them.
No, many people don't make calls from their car and they go though life just fine. There's no alternative to a car - but you can easily wait 20 minutes to make your call when you've arrived or simply stop in a car park for a few minutes if it's that urgent.
How do I know that the call is that urgent until I answer it? I might get ten calls during a journey, nine of which may be things that could wait until later in the day, but there may be that one panic call that demands my attention there and then.
And just because some people don't need to make calls while driving, that means that nobody needs to? Of course, you're right that nobody actually NEEDS to use a phone while driving. It is simply a convenience (though for some it is a much more useful convenience for others.) But equally, very few people actually NEED to drive in the first place. Most of us could get local jobs or resign ourselves to spending more time on public transport than we do in the office.
I'd struggle to do my job properly if I had to find somewhere to stop every time the phone rang. The need to be contactable while driving was evident nearly 20 years ago, which is why I got my first car phone circa 1992. In all of that time (and the 500,000+ miles that I have driven during it) I have never had a near miss, let alone an accident as a result of using my mobile phone. And that's going back to the days when I didn't even have the option of hands-free, let alone it being a legal requirement.
The trouble with this country now is that the "if it saves one life, then it's worth the sacrifice" mentality has taken hold. It has become fashionable to demonise anything that has the potential to cause an injury or fatality. People fail to realise that, taken to its extremes, this is just cause for banning cars, mains gas and electricity, swimming pools, and a whole load of other things that enhance our lives.
As I said before, I honestly believe that it's the nature of the conversation rather than the medium through which is is conducted that is the danger. Indeed, deep thought can be a sufficient distraction. Perhaps you've never had that moment when you're driving along a motorway and you realise that you haven't a clue where you're up to, but if you ever have, then you're guilty of letting your mind wander while driving. _________________ TomTom GO700
Renault Carminat TomTom
TrafficMaster YQ2 (now forcibly retired, and sadly missed.)
Last edited by Horatio on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Once you have seen an HGV driver approaching you, head on, whilst reading a large map book on his steeering wheel you want maps banned - not sat navs. Is Sat Nav any different from having a passenger give you directions. Should passengers be banned too? A few of my friends would like to ban their wives from navigating or even being in the car when they are driving. All of my cars have this strange dent develop in the centre of the passenger footwell. Can't imagine why! _________________ iPhone 3GS 32Gb, OS 4.1, not jailbroken, CoPilot, TomTom, TomTom car kit.
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: Eyesight and the like
I use my phone as a GPS the screen is small and as an older person my eyesight requires glasses to read - but not drive.
I rely entirley on the spoken word and the available road signs when approacing roundabouts/junctions etc.
Not had too many problems even when using my Garmin Street Pilot. The Nokia GPS tends to be a tad slower on alerts but other than that, no problems.
I use a bluetooth hands free kit so the warning are spoken into my ear - I dont think it distracts me in general usage.
Mobile phone users while driving (especially on motorways) are easily detectable. The first thing they do is slow the vehicle to answer the phone - it's their brain telling them they cannot handle these two things at once. Easily spotted!
8000 were caught in one month by Strathclyde police.
If you were to ban GPS then everything else would follow, DVD, TV, radio, CD etc etc. Next they will ban passengers! _________________ Cheers,
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: mobile phones in cars
The safety tests were flawed - they had people doing mental arithmetic during a phone conversation -of course they were distracted, just as if you tried to work out your VAT return as you drive!!
Simple calls, such as to inform someone you will be delayed, or for your wife to ask you to pick her up at the station while you are passing - (or "pop into tesco - I'll text you the list") are not distracting so long as they are short, on a bluetooth headset (not these built in systems that need you to lean forward and shove your mouth against the CD player to be heard!) and simple.
I use mine to check up on traffic ahead.
and No you can't just pull over and answer the call, or call them back in 20 minutes - country roads you can a go for miles looking for somewhere to pull over and you are a nuisance to following cars as you slow down by every farm gate etc to see if you can get in there - I know we have had to do it often enough when kids need the loo - likewise town - no stopping on many roads - the only exception is the motorway when you can be reasonably sure you can pull of into a service station in about 20 - 30 mins
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject:
georgemonaghan - I have a similar eyesight thing to you, but in addition am rather deaf. So I found bi-focals great for driving, instead of putting reading glasses on to see satnav, then looking over the top of tham awkwardly for the road. Much easier (and safer IMHO) now.
The points about a 1 in 10 'must answer now' really urgent and immediate calls, and the difficulty of finding somewhere to stop for many minutes (never mind urgently and immediately),don't go together very comfortably, do they - even if the other 90% are just told 'will ring back?
Seeing as we are talking business calls here really I would have thought the urgent call means you MUST find the nearest place to stop, even if that means, say, coming off a motorway temporarily. While you CAN'T stop, I would have said the bottom line is you CAN'T talk business. Even if a few individuals say they CAN do it safely, it's still illegal (exactly the same as some people saying they drive better than others when they happen to be slightly over the drink/drive limit). Both are the driver's choice and the consequences are theirs as well.
And in any case how many calls are really 'drop dead' calls? Surely ANY call CAN wait for 20-30 minutes to reply fully (even though my boss took his phone into the WC so that 'business did not interrupt business') - if it's really important it's likely to demand too much concentration on the move anyway. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
The occasional quick glance at a Sat Nav screen is not really that much of a distraction - the advance voice command gives you enough time to do a quick hazard scan before looking to the screen, and if, like me, the satnav is on the dash top you can use it whilst still having peripheral vision on the road (in the same way you will notice changes in the rear view mirror even when looking ahead.
These sorts of ideas (banning all distractions) are missing the point - namely that too many drivers are not paying attention to the road conditions, developing hazards, etc even when they are doing nothing else but plain driving! And the biggest distraction in cars are young children (they should be banned - after all they also make a sticky mess of the leather seats too!!).
PS: A more dangerous sat nav behaviour (of which I am occasionally guilty) is using it as "pace notes" - by half-watching the shape of the highlighted route ahead you can see which bends are tight, and which you can take flat out!
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: Sat nav a distraction?
This is not a good idea. It is much safer to use a sat nav than to be craning your neck amongst all the different road furniture looking for direction signs. I look at the screen occasionally to check verbal directions but less often than I have to look at the speedo to avoid fines!
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject:
With reference to the use of a mobile phone, it has been demonstrated on many occasions that a phone conversation affects a drivers concentration as much as a driver who is over the legal drink drive limit.
Despite all the natural comparisons with eating/drinking/glancing at a satnav/tuning the radio etc in-car, a phone call stands head and shoulders above in terms of distracting the driver from the job at hand. _________________ Darren Griffin
Can you list the numerous times? - the only research I have come across was done by TRRL and it was flawed! They had people answering questions about history, (which needed thinking about) doing mathematics etc.
Given that, they should have had a control experiment, in which the drivers were asked to do the same tasks, but via different medium - eg a passenger asking them the questions, popping them on screen etc - this would have been a controlled scientific experiment, but sadly many, even quite notable research institutes are not scientists, and produce misleading results.
If they had done a controlled experiment they could have determined whether it was the fact that the phone was involved that caused distraction, or the tasks given.
doings sums in your head, attempting to recall facts are all distractions in themselves (as is trying to recall the number of the motorway juction you wanted, or counting up to take the third right off a road (or was it third left, them first right......etc).
The rule of thumb for phone calls is keep it short, simple and essential to the journey.
I quite agree, discussing the profit margin on a high pressure sales deal whilst trying to drive is dangerous, but letting the office know the sat nav now says you will be 10 mins late is not - not on a bluetooth earpiece and voice dialling, where you dont need to fiddle with anything.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject:
briandavison wrote:
Can you list the numerous times?
The TRRL research may appear flawed but those who argue so vehemently in favour of in-car use of phones are often those who use the car as a mobile office.
I agree that short'n'simple calls are not necessarily the problem here. However, driving is not the place for complex business calls that require a high level of mental cognisance and so how do you legislate to prohibit one and not the other?
Given we have idiots seeking to disable runlocks on dash mounted TV's we cannot deny that there are some who lack the basic common sense that we may have? _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
But how do we feel about sat-nav? It's another device that can be distracting, should manufacturers lock out the menus and options once the vehicle is moving and is there anything else they can do to improve safety and reduce distractions?
This was the question you asked us. Surely the mobile phone question has been hammered to death before now. Lets not confuse the issue even if the two devices are linked. We are not suggesting that mobile phones should be disabled when the car is moving, so any discussion re mobile phones does not relate to the initial question.
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the screen is small and as an older person my eyesight requires glasses to read - but not drive.
