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darrengsaw
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Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: 107
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 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Very impressive indeed.
If all the routes are pre-calculated I assume they would have to run the same algorithm prior to every map update, maybe, perhaps.
Then you have map share as well....
Anyway, looks a very good device, I could be tempted to part with some cash on one. |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14902
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| darrengsaw wrote: | | If all the routes are pre-calculated I assume they would have to run the same algorithm prior to every map update, maybe, perhaps. |
Taken together with Darren's | Quote: | | TomTom have achieved this by calculation every possible route option from all start points to all destinations. This was achieved using a server farm that ran for weeks on end to perform the millions of calculations. |
it wouldn't bode well for map updates, setting them back by however long it takes for the farmer to bring the routes into the stable. Maybe they'll be like incremental backups, only re-doing anywhere the map changes?
And certainly MapShare downloads would jigger it to pieces - MapShare to revert to one way only? (up to TomTom, not down to devices) - they needn't announce it, just simply have Home run a thermometer bar as if it was downloading them, but it would still have consequences for any corrections you make on your own device. Darren, when you get hold of one, see if you can jigger the routing by sticking in suitable mapshare corrections. Bet that 2000km calculation time goes up (maybe even belly up  )
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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offthegrid
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Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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More frequent map updates are probably going to be on the menu here rather than mapshare updates. TT's head man not that long ago said TT would soon be capable of offering new maps every two days.
I'd like to know what this means for the US market. We didn't get the X50 series and now we aren't getting this either it seems. No HD Traffic here either.
Are they dumping the US market for all intent and purpose?
| DennisN wrote: | | darrengsaw wrote: | | If all the routes are pre-calculated I assume they would have to run the same algorithm prior to every map update, maybe, perhaps. |
Taken together with Darren's | Quote: | | TomTom have achieved this by calculation every possible route option from all start points to all destinations. This was achieved using a server farm that ran for weeks on end to perform the millions of calculations. |
it wouldn't bode well for map updates, setting them back by however long it takes for the farmer to bring the routes into the stable. Maybe they'll be like incremental backups, only re-doing anywhere the map changes?
And certainly MapShare downloads would jigger it to pieces - MapShare to revert to one way only? (up to TomTom, not down to devices) - they needn't announce it, just simply have Home run a thermometer bar as if it was downloading them, but it would still have consequences for any corrections you make on your own device. Darren, when you get hold of one, see if you can jigger the routing by sticking in suitable mapshare corrections. Bet that 2000km calculation time goes up (maybe even belly up ) |
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Guivre46
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Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 1262
Location: West London
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure it will solve the postcode problem too  |
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Wazza_G
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Joined: Jan 10, 2006
Posts: 585
Location: Guildford (Regrettibly)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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If they block the Speed Cam updates from this site, then I'll be jumping ship and going to Garmin when it comes to upgrade time...
So  TomTom. |
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Wazza_G wrote: | | If they block the Speed Cam updates from this site, then I'll be jumping ship and going to Garmin when it comes to upgrade time.... |
Thanks for your support 
But I think it is far too early to be certain and despite the mixed messages, I think we'll see support of some sort although it may entail using the devil that is HOME.
The web version is not yet available even to demo so it remains to be seen what it will actually offer and if it will actually function properly unlike the current standalone version
I will re-iterate that the mount is a great design, very positive connection from the magnet and supremely easy to attach/detach.
The downside is that, as per x40/x50, a dedicated cable is required.
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Darren Griffin |
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darrengsaw
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Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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If the API is opened up to third parties, perhaps PGPSW could write a cameralert type program for it. 
Now that would kick bottom! |
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Milesey
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Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Holmfirth
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: TomTom GO LIVE 1000 |
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| Darren wrote: | | But what it does mean is the device will no longer be visible on the desktop as a drive and can only be accessed via the HOME service. It seems that support for third party apps may not be present on the GO LIVE 1000, at least not at launch. A very worrying move if true. |
I wonder if this is also related to the patent battle they had with Microsoft about use of FAT32? I seem to remember that at some point, TT would eventually have to cease use?
Regardless of that though, yes, this is very worrying unless TT allow users to upload their custom POIs, etc to the web-based HOME service (similar to Dropbox, etc). Also, I also guess this is the only way forward for the TT iPhone app too.
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(Older kit: TomTom Go Original, 910, 940 Live, 1005 Live and Snooper S4 Neo. Mazda TomTom NB1 built-in). |
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JimmyTheHand
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Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | it wouldn't bode well for map updates, setting them back by however long it takes for the farmer to bring the routes into the stable. |
There are more than 1000 cities, towns in UK - so that is over 1 million different routes just between the centres - taking villages and streets into consideration it is increasing to a billion routes and we haven't got out of UK yet.
If you think each route will require quite a few 10s of bytes if not hundreds - There is no way they can store all of those routes on a pnd. So I would guess they are using of "hints" to dramatically reduce what the routing algothium needs to do and the server time was required to workout best hints. If this is the case then it is likely they won't need as processing time to handle map changes
but then this is TomTom
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MrT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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The routing will still be based on dodgy IQ information and the HD services will still be as unreliable as today as these are features outside of the device that it depends upon.
I rushed to get the 940 when it was first released and after the issues I have had with that and HD services, I will think more carefully and read many more reviews before I rush to have the latest gadget.
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Guivre46
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Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 1262
Location: West London
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: TomTom GO LIVE 1000 |
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| Milesey wrote: | | Darren wrote: | | But what it does mean is the device will no longer be visible on the desktop as a drive and can only be accessed via the HOME service. It seems that support for third party apps may not be present on the GO LIVE 1000, at least not at launch. A very worrying move if true. |
I wonder if this is also related to the patent battle they had with Microsoft about use of FAT32? I seem to remember that at some point, TT would eventually have to cease use? |
More likely it is TT wishing to more tightly control its software and maps. There are forums where people download maps and navcores that were never supplied with their devices. Not sure what this piracy costs, but it must be a significant percentage. |
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Darren
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyTheHand wrote: | | So I would guess they are using of "hints" to dramatically reduce what the routing algothium needs to do and the server time was required to workout best hints. |
The data file I'm told is 1Gb in size and stored on the device. There is some very complex recursive compression being used but yes, there are a number of techniques and tricks being used to reduce the file size AND the calculations to produce the route.
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Darren Griffin |
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: TomTom GO LIVE 1000 |
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| Guivre46 wrote: | | More likely it is TT wishing to more tightly control its software and maps. There are forums where people download maps and navcores that were never supplied with their devices. Not sure what this piracy costs, but it must be a significant percentage. |
That would be my guess as to why this is being implemented too.
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NickG
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Posts: 357
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see how this precalculated route thing could work. If the routes are all precalculated, how can they take advantage of live traffic updates, IQ Routes (ie the current time of day/day of week) and mapshare corrections? Precalculated routes would have to ignore all of those things. Did they say how it actually worked?
Edit: I wonder if rather than precalculating the actual route, they simply accelerate the process by pre-calculating which roads are useful when going from one area to another - meaning the route calculation only has to consider a few dozen roads, instead of all possible roads in the vicinity as it does currently. That would could allow the device to take into account the things I've mentioned above but still calculating the routes much faster. |
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JimmyTheHand
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Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 386
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | | The data file I'm told is 1Gb in size and stored on the device. |
That's going to be fun to download updates for - what maps is that for?
| Darren wrote: | | There is some very complex recursive compression being used but yes, there are a number of techniques and tricks being used to reduce the file size AND the calculations to produce the route. |
Let's hope the effort is worth it - but I'll wait and see the reviews and user comments before considering it - it is afterall a TomTom
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