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Duddy Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 09, 2006 Posts: 219 Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:48 am Post subject: Re: Are Average Cameras Proving to be the Dream Ticket? |
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Skippy wrote: | RobBrady wrote: | An average of 30 drivers a day are being fined. |
I'll bet you they won't say how many vehicles pass through the area every day though.
I'd say that these are people who drive through (maybe in the middle of the night) and forget that there is a limit or people in stolen/cloned vehicles. |
According to the Greater Manchester Transportation website the AAWT (Annual Average Weekday Traffic flow) between M6 junctions 26 & 27 is 52206 vehicles counting both directions. So it appears 0.0575% of drivers are being prosecuted. Very Interesting ( in German accent) _________________ HUAWEI P30 Pro (new edition) with Speedtrap Alert & alcatel1 for SatNav
CoPilot 10 with CamerAlert
RoadHawk in-car video
Reading glasses getting thicker as is my waist
Retired but want to go back to work for a rest. |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
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DarrenR21373 wrote: | Although that brings us onto another topic altogether - GPS devices' speed readout accuracy... | SIRF STAR lll spec
Velocity Accuracy
Speed <0.01 m/s
Heading <0.01°
From here |
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worried Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 74
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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M8TJT wrote: | @worried. I am not disagreeing with you ref the speedo accuracy regulation, but I believe the previous post was confusing the speed at which a prosecution occurs from a speed cam as 10%+2mph with the accuracy required of a speedo
PS How did you calibrate the Navman? |
Mine is a Navman N20, top right of the screen you can have the road speed showing. on a quiet bit of main road (if you can find one) that has the markers at the side of the road, travel a a constant speed, i.e. 50 and over a succession of 1 KM's - most are accurately placed but not all - record the time on a stop watch
Your actual road speed is 3600/time(Seconds) Km/hr divide by 1.60344 to get MPH
I normally try and do from 30 to 70
my speedo
Indicated TRUE
30 27
40 36.6
50 46.8
60 56.6
70 66.2
I also have a ScanGauge OBDII meter that show the road speed surprisingly accurate on my car
Last edited by worried on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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worried Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 74
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I forgot about Tachographs, its a few years since I was involved, but I think that they have to be accurate with vertually no tolerance.
This is where I used to do my Speedo calibrations, Millbrook Proving Bedfordshire |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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worried wrote: | on a quiet bit of main road (if you can find one) that has the markers at the side of the road, travel a a constant speed, i.e. 50 and over a succession of 1 KM's - most are accurately placed but not all - record the time on a stop watch |
My insurance policy is void if I do speed testing _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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pward Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 15, 2005 Posts: 57
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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DennisN wrote: | DarrenR21373 wrote: | you never know what the tolerances are these days, even though they should be 10%+2 under ACPO guidelines |
I think this is a good question relating to Specs Average Speed cameras. We're talking AVERAGE speed here, so if a tolerance of 10%+2 is permitted, then in a 50mph Specs zone they would be tolerating an average speed of 57mph - allowing fluctuation, that might mean someone gets away with driving at an AVERAGE of 63mph according to his 10% over speedo and that's ridiculous isn't it? |
It would be if it worked liked that, but it doesn't. The guidelines don't take into account potential over-reading speedometers so in a 50mph zone they should be set to 57mph.
DennisN wrote: | I were in charge of Specs camera settings, they'd all be set to ZERO TOLERANCE. |
Agreed; in fact there's nothing to stop cameras being set with zero tolerance. The ACPO Guidelines are just that, guidelines, and cannot be used as a defence in court. After all, 1mph over the limit is still illegal and you can be done for it... |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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pward wrote: | It would be if it worked liked that, but it doesn't. The guidelines don't take into account potential over-reading speedometers so in a 50mph zone they should be set to 57mph. |
True, but the point is that to average 57 MPH your speedo (which generally reads fast) would probably be reading at 60 MPH or more... _________________ Gone fishing! |
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DeLorean Lifetime Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 314 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve always wondered how reliable the number identification on these SPECS cameras is
There must be a high degree of tolerance on the identification of plates.
I’d also swear that if you’re coming up on outside lane next to a big lorry (hanging back slightly) it can’t possibly see you; unless it has x-ray vision
You could try: Never washing your number plates or remove the splattered flies to decrease your chances of identification _________________ 🔸🔸 Currently using TomTom GO 940 & Locus Map 🔸🔸 |
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tonywalker Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 3
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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DennisN wrote: | Interesting to learn how many fines and points you could pick up if you did 75 through a 5 camera stretch, merely slowing down momentarily to 50 at each camera!). |
i would hazard a guess at none.
10% of 70 + 2mph gives 79mph.
the cameras are probably set something around this i suspect.
as well as everything else most speedos are innacurate to a greater or lesser degree. they all over read. the nissan xtrail i had showed at an indicated 80 according to my sat nav (on the flat) 72mph. my honda crv is only a couple of mph. fast though.
(Mod. edit to attribute quote - AP) |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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tonywalker wrote: |
i would hazard a guess at none.
10% of 70 + 2mph gives 79mph.
the cameras are probably set something around this i suspect. |
Reading between the lines, I think Dennis was talking about a stretch of cameras all set to 50mph. |
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phmode Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: Maybe off topic; How do I know I am in a SPECS zone? |
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OK. We all know how to drive on the M(insert local motorway number here) when there are roadworks with a SPECS system. Anyone being silly here just deserves to be blatted by the authorities.
But, off the motorway system, how do I know if I am in a SPECS zone? Take the Cat and Fiddle road in Derbyshire/Cheshire/Staffordshire ( or wherever ). I can easily see that if I am taking Great Aunty Mabel for a leisurely drive in the country, it would be too easy to 'forget', despite the doubtless sign posts every 2 miles, that I am in an average speed zone.
Does my Garmin 2820 differentiate between normal cameras and average speed zones?
Even if it does, how do I know when I am still 'IN' a zone and when I am 'OUT' of a zone. Nothing tells me when I am past the last in the series or web of cameras.
None of these things exist on my normal routes so I can't check what happens on the sat nav but it would be worrying not knowing when I was still being 'averaged'.
You can't always stick to the posted speed limit, it may be easy to do 50 through the roadworks on a motorway, but in real life, where you have junctions and traffic and silly things like people and bikes and horses to contend with, you have absolutely no idea what your 'true average' really is.
I might have to dig out my old Speedpilot, beloved of rally navigators of old, but with my advancing years I doubt if I would be able to remember how to use the thing.
So, any advice on how to know when you are in an average zone and how to stay below the posted speed without driving everywhere AT or BELOW(?) the posted speed. I mean, that just seems dumb, that is almost, well, sticking to the speed limit!!!
Regards, Brian |
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pcaouolte Frequent Visitor
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: South Lincs, UK.
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe off topic; How do I know I am in a SPECS zone? |
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phmode wrote: | ...
So, any advice on how to know when you are in an average zone and how to stay below the posted speed without driving everywhere AT or BELOW(?) the posted speed. I mean, that just seems dumb, that is almost, well, sticking to the speed limit!!!
... |
The law requires that you drive everywhere at or below the posted speed limt. It may "seem dumb" but it's part of the art of driving properly. _________________ Paul |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Great Aunty Mabel must be quite a girl if her idea of a leasurely drive is to howl along one of the reputed most dangerous roads in the country at over the speed limit!
Advice on how to stay below the posted speed :-
1. Don't take Great Aunty Mabel out for a drive, she's obviously a bad influence.
2. Keep your eyes on the road and the posted speed limit and if you see silly things like junctions, traffic, people, bikes and horses, SLOW DOWN to avoid them instead of treating them as an obstacle course for giving Great Aunty Mabel a vertigo or balance booster.
3. Put a half brick UNDER your accelerator pedal, instead of on top of it and wear lightweight driving shoes with sandpaper insoles (or even bare feet).
Really, as I've said before elsewhere, it's a case of changing your (I mean this for EVERYBODY, it's not for you personally) driving attitude.
Set off in good time to get there without pushing it. Don't drive AT or UP TO the speed limit - drive in such a way that a momentary lapse in concentration results in your speed falling, not rising. Remember, even Great Aunty Mabel has been heard to say (very quietly, I know, but heard nevertheless) "It's better to arrive 5 minutes late in this world than 50 (or 5) years early in the next".
And just what are you going to do with the five minutes you save by chancing your (and other road user's) luck? I suppose you could use the extra time to earn enough to pay for the fuel and tyres the higher speed costs you. (I sold my last van at the end of February having done 96,000 miles in the two years since new and I had not replaced the front disk brake pads and only put four new tyres on it - don't you just hate silly old me?). _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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chrisb80 Lifetime Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2007 Posts: 33
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Reading the posts about average speed cameras and other head on recording ones makes me wonder how can they catch speeding motorbikes with a registration plate on the back only. I've often wondered this, perhaps someone can explain, I'd love to know. |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14901 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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chrisb80 wrote: | wonder how can they catch speeding motorbikes with a registration plate on the back only. I've often wondered this, perhaps someone can explain, I'd love to know. |
They can't catch them. It's a sort of compensation for bikers being vulnerable to just about every four-wheeler on the road - bikers don't get nicked just so long as you and I don't grind them into small wet bundles of biker and bike! _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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