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Flashing Headlights as a warning
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chrisbenwalker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Flashing Headlights as a warning Reply with quote

I was travelling in Manchester recently on my way home from work, and saw two police cars parked down a side road with a hand held speed gun, targetting the oncoming vehicles.

I decided to do the decent thing as I went round the bend, and flashed a few of the cars heading towards the police to warn them (most of who I don't think knew why I was flashing).

It just got me thinking afterwards, what would have happened if police had been at the other end of the road and had seen me flashing the cars coming toards me? Is there a specific penalty for warning other drivers of the impending camera?

I was careful to check that nothing was at the other end, although i would not know of an off duty police or unmarked cars so guess we all gotta be careful about doing that sort of thing.....
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JockTamsonsBairn
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know whether there is any precedent, or enough about the law to suggest what you might be charged with, but, strictly speaking, you are aiding an offender avoid prosecution. You could argue that you were warning drivers of a accident black spot ahead! But ...


PS I take it you have submitted the Mobile site?
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chrisbenwalker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:



PS I take it you have submitted the Mobile site?


I have my database on my Navigo pretty up to date and its already a mobile site, but would have had it not been!!

Cheers
Chris
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falkirk81
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still need the location to be reported as 'seen again' so that we know which mobile locations are being used! Smile
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253
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mobile camera was out again on Coychurch Road, Mid Glam yesterday afternoon, (reported seen again).
It is a dual carriageway, and some idiot coming towards us was flashing headlights hysterically and waving hands like a lunatic, whilst at the same time almost driving into the central reservation.
There's being helpful (supposedly) and there's being a prat.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In answer to the original Q. Yes it is technically unlawful to warn others and there have been prosecutions in the past.

I'm not able to provide links from where I am but a quick Google should find plenty. I recall a recent case where a man used to erect a small sign to warn drivers, he was prosecuted and convicted.

Not sure if it's assisting an offender or obstruction of a police officer. Of course many of us do it bit be alert when you do or your good deed may turn leave a nasty aftertaste!
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not sure if it's assisting an offender or obstruction of a police officer.

This is where some of the rules and regulations become confusing to me.

There are signs to warn of mobile sites, I assume to slow people down and not get caught by a possible mobile camera.

There are camera databases which warn of the position of cameras, which slows people down.

It could be argued that by warning an oncoming driver that he may be exceeding the speed limit, and therefore slowing him down, the 'flasher' is actually assisting the police. and doing no more than the signs or databases.

One 'CRIME' less committed, or maybe several.

Get the helicopters up 'boys'. Supreme Angel
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chrisbenwalker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take the point about flashing could actually slow the 'offender' down, but surely the police prefer to catch people as it makes them more more money.

I'm just a bit worried now as I read somewhere that police set up a different camera facing away from them where they catch the 'flashers' warning the speeders!!

Didn't see anything so hope I not got myself into any trouble!

BTW, reported again the seen again site.....
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisbenwalker wrote:
I take the point about flashing could actually slow the 'offender' down, but surely the police prefer to catch people as it makes them more more money.

It's important to be clear here. Police don't benefit from monetary fines issued by Police Officers and Safety Camera Partnerships that run the vans and fixed cameras are a different beast entirely.

There is no financial incentive for Police to catch motorists. Targets for various offence categories etc may however have some bearing.
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chrisbenwalker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point about the revenue issue. I meant making more money in general to put back into the development of safety cameras, but also take your point about the police forces targets etc.
BTW, has anyone heard of people getting caught whilst flashing their headlights while travelling away from the police's speed trap? I can't find the article that I'd read earlier....
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Snudge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How could the cops prove in court that you were warning other drivers if you claim you were flashing your lights at someone you knew just to say hello?
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if you claim you were flashing your lights at someone you knew just to say hello?

Problem is Snudge, some lawyer would point out you should only flash your headlights, if necessary, during the hours of darkness (23:30-07:00?) instead of using your horn, all the 'flash' does is to say 'I am here'.
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Snudge
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:
all the 'flash' does is to say 'I am here'.


Exactly my point though - you are a friend of mine and I'm saying just that - 'I am here'
Doesn't the prosecution have to prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt?
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snudge wrote:
Doesn't the prosecution have to prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt?

Of course, assuming you choose to enter a Not Guilty Plea. But there have been successful prosecutions so clearly they either plead guilty or the CPS has the wherewithal to prove their case..

If you were seen to flash you headlights and perhaps wave you arm in the 'slow down' signal it may be difficult to offer a defence particularly if you did it more than once over some distance?
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chrisbenwalker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my case, I waited until I got round the bend so was out of site of the police, as would have been worried anyone acknowledging me would do so with a return flash of their lights, letting the police see I had gestured to the approaching vehicle.

Even then though, I guess it would be hard for the police to prove anyone had flashed their lights if it was day light and they not been able to see the bright flash from the front of any given car. much easier for the police to prove at night I'd say.

I am also guessing that you would be pursued by police and stopped at the time of the actual incident, and questioned about the incident....

The incident I refer to had 2 police cars at the scene.
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