Driver issued Redlight Ticket making way for 999 van

[MikeB]

Reported the other day in the Tameside Advertiser is the story of a driver who moved into a Redlight controlled junction to allow a speeding 999 Police van to get through. A few days later he was stunned to find a NIP (Notice of Intent to Prosecute) drop through his letterbox. After requesting the photos of the infringement he says you can clearly see the Police Van passing him in the junction.

The driver when contesting the ticket says that the Central Ticket Office told him he should not have moved. Is this another case of Jobsworth? What would the guy have said if it the Police had been speeding to investigate a break-in at his house? There is clearly a case for common sense to prevail and this does not seem to have happened in this case.

The Tameside Advertiser report:

Taken from the Tameside Advertiser

999 call sparks red light row

August 05, 2009

A DRIVER who pulled forward at a red light to let a police van pass has been hit with a ticket – for jumping the light.

Phillip Lilley was waiting at traffic lights on Manchester Road, Droylsden, when he saw the van behind him with its sirens blaring heading from Ashton towards the crossroads.

On instinct, the 36-year-old edged forward so the police could get through.

But he was left stunned a few days later when he received a letter to say he had been caught on camera jumping the lights and was slapped with a £60 fine and three penalty points.
Phillip, a car mechanic, says he drives the same way up to eight times a day so knows the junction well.

He is now disputing the fine after requesting a copy of the picture, taken by the camera at the traffic lights, which shows his car and the police van as it passed him.

He said: "The guy in front of me pulled right out into the junction so I followed him. What am I supposed to do, just stay there and not move? I crossed the line 33 seconds after the lights turned to red, I was only doing 12 miles per hour and my brake lights were on. I asked for the picture the camera had taken and the police car is clearly in view but I spoke to the Central Ticket Office and they said I shouldn’t have moved."

Phillip, of Easton Road, Droylsden, is now concerned that drivers who moved out of the way with him will also have got tickets. He added: "They may not remember – how many sets of traffic lights do you go through in a day? Even if they do they may not request the picture and if they do the police car may not be visible. My concern is how many other people it’s happened to. If that’s standard practice then the next time I’m sitting at the traffic lights and an emergency vehicle comes, I’m not moving."

The fine came just days after Phillip had overturned a similar ticket issued when the lights were out of order. They were replaced by a temporary set but the cameras had been left on.

Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership would not comment on Phillip’s case but said emergency vehicle drivers were trained to manoeuvre around other cars.

Communications officer Karen Delaney said: "This happens all the time. If you are at red traffic lights you are putting yourself in danger if you go through them. You risk getting a ticket but if there is evidence that backs it up that you have manoeuvred on behalf of an emergency vehicle then we will look into it."
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Mike Barrett

[bammbamm]

This is just typical of the police all they are interested in, is doing drivers all the time and when it comes down to real policing they don't want to know and just fob you off with the same old rubbish. there is nothing we can do our hands are tied. so the moral of this story is if you see an ambulance or fire engine try and move out of the way. if you see the police stay where you are.

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neil bayley

[MaFt]

[GerryC]

So this doesn't come under that catch-all rule about breaking road law that it's OK if you do it under the instruction of a Police Officer?

Of course, if you stay still, you'll get done for obstructing a officer from doing his duty etc.
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Gerry
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[Privateer]

If true, then it sounds a clear message to all drivers - Do not go through a red light at all, even to allow an emergency vehicle a route.

How can the police "do you" for obstructing them by not going through a red light when the Highway Code states that it is illegal to go pass a red traffic light?

If a police officer orders you to move then I guess that it is different. But you should always ask their permission to move (through the light) and also get their rank and id number.

Regards,
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Robert.
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[7andy]

...it is interesting to note that it is illegal to stop on the Queen's highway. It is this that gives an Officer of the Law the right to require you to move on.
It is also illegal to not stop at a red light, in direct contravention of the law above.

You pays your money and you takes your choice - you'll be damned whichever way you go!

[rikesh123]

[GerryC]

Devil's advocate time.

The only thing bugging me about the original article now is that he was going at "only 12mph". Now I've passed over red lines to get out of the way before but at not much more than walking pace because I was checking for pedestrians crossing the road. Even then I didn't really get to the junction as I crossed in front of the next lane across.
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Gerry
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[Matt865]

The cruel and arbitrary nature of the faceless bureaucracy that make this country an increasingly infuriating place to live. Terry Gilliam's Brazil hit the nail on the head 24 years ago. If a bureaucratic points their finger, you are guilty.

[The Rudd]

Absolutely disgarceful, I would have most likely done the same thing if I had been in that position.

Jerry

[JimmyTheHand]

I recall at least one instance (probably more) of this in Honest John's column in The Telegraph Saturday's motoring supplement over the years

Sadly the answer is - don't cross the Red Light unless a Police Officer directs you to (and has stopped other traffic so as there is no danger)
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J.

[Tom59]

You have all lost the point.
It's another £60.00 that they have made. Profit overrides common sense every time!
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[ChristopherW]

I had to similarly move out of the way of an ambulance with blues and twos on during one of my morning commutes.

This was along the Birmingham New Road (dual carriageway all the way), which - as all fellow Birmingham New Road users will know - is literally peppered with redlights and Gatsos. 30 in each direction in a 10 mile stretch (and the entire dual carriageway is 40mph!)

At the junction in question, we were stopped and there was a redlight camera. I was at the front of the queue in the offside lane and all of a sudden I see cars in my mirror pulling to the sides as much as they can. However, there's little room to manouevre as the lanes are narrow and I seem to be stopping everyone in the queue from being able to nudge up and move to the outside of the lane to let the ambulance through...

... so, I slowly crawled over the white line, and the ambulance made its way past. I think I was pretty much completely over the white line as the ambulance finally got past!

Fortunately, it seems that Common Sense and cluefulness took hold for once, and I never received a NIP in the post. However, the pendulum swings both ways and I'm currently watching the doormat with one eye just in case a NIP falls onto it one morning


(out of curiosity, does anybody know what the envelopes West Midlands police use for their NIPs look like?)

[BigPerk]

Unfortunately, probably "guilty as charged" Highway Code says (219)

[ChristopherW]

Shame really, isn't it. Hopefully if you went before the Magistrate and plead your case, they'd see sense and dismiss the charge against you. My boss is a JP and I'd expect him to most certainly make the logical (and clueful) choice and dismiss the charge on the grounds that performing your public duty by allowing an emergency vehicle to safely pass overrides all but the most essential of traffic laws!

As long as you didn't drive to the other side of the junction to let it past, I really can't see the problem with entering into the junction to make space. There's usually tons of space on all sides of the junction and I've never seen an accident involving people hitting cars on the other side of the carriageway while executing a turn across the carriageway...

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