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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: | | It's a two edged sword if the evidence isn't in your favour. |
All the more reason to drive responsibly then? If it acts as a useful reminder as to your driving behaviour it will have yet another benefit.
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Darren Griffin |
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Murdoc
Lifetime Member
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Nottinghamshire
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: RoadHawk |
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This is my first time on the forum so please forgive any errors in etiquette!
My question would be is this device approved in any way/by anyone, videos can be fiddled with so would the data be admissible in a British court?
I like the idea of it, but if it’s not admissible then it's an expensive gadget.
The price of cameras not I’m sure it could be modified so it can have a second camera that looks out the back as well |
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pushandpull
Regular Visitor
Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 153
Location: Heywood, Lancashire
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Well I don't know the exact legality of Videos, but a few years back when my car was vandalised outside the house by drunken yobboes we had it all captured on a security camera. When we offered this video to the police they said they couldn't accept it as evidence simply because videos could be altered!
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Yet the first thing the police do when a serious crime has been committed is go round the local firms checking their security videos for evidence which as we know has often resulted in the criminals being brought to justice especially when such videos are consequently shown on programmes such as "Crimewatch" etc.
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Any Lawyers amongst our fraternity who can clarify this point?
.....Ken
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14902
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: Re: RoadHawk |
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| Murdoc wrote: | My question would be is this device approved in any way/by anyone, videos can be fiddled with so would the data be admissible in a British court?
I like the idea of it, but if it’s not admissible then it's an expensive gadget. |
 Personally, for me the question about admissible in court doesn't matter, I merely want it for recording my travels, with the special benefit it will help me with Verifying PGPSW speed camera sites - I don't have to prove it to myself.
No more expensive than any other video cameras, no more or less admissible than them too? We currently have various videos being used as some form of evidence, including mobile phone videos. They may not be graven in stone, but certainly prompt serious consideration. As for "alterable", I'd think altering a moving video is a different proposition from altering a still photo - I can fiddle in a very amateur way with a jpeg, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to start changing a video to lie about the events filmed. Sure, cut out some scenes, but not change the sequence to show me driving like an angel as I cut you down!
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
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MikeB
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Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57
Posts: 3859
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I suspect that irrespective of the legality of this device in a court of law, it can certainly be used to corroborate your statement on the insurance form. Indeed a lot of incidents don't get reported to the authorities, but still result in insurance claims being made.
It is a little like taking pictures of a crash scene, people are advised to do that. The fact that you have some record of the event even if it is used as an aide memoir must have some benefit. Also watching a video back can often show things happening in different way to that originally perceived.
Having said that one wonders if this is indeed a good thing? How long before all cars are mandated to carry these, either by law or by stealth from insurance companies reducing premiums? Once it is ubiquitous how long will it be for the nanny state to insist on reviewing these videos to slap fines on us for minor mistakes and misdemeanours. If we thought that the deployment of Speed Cameras was a bad thing...
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14902
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| MikeB wrote: | | Having said that one wonders if this is indeed a good thing? |
Spoilsport! I want one, I want one - just so long as Darren doesn't slate it in his review.
| Quote: | | Once it is ubiquitous how long will it be for the nanny state to insist on reviewing these videos to slap fines on us for minor mistakes and misdemeanours. |
Are you suggesting that plod will have nothing better to do than decide to pull a whitevanman, signal me over, then climb in to look at my video to show I was speeding yesterday in Nether Hopping? They don't even have time to call round when my van gets done over and somebody nicks my Black Dyke Mills brass band CD! How much time and effort do they already put in on HGV Tachographs? - not enough to stop excess drivers' hours and speed violations.
Or that having stopped me for actual speeding will seize the video to prove it?
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | Or that having stopped me for actual speeding will seize the video to prove it? |
It's not so much the 60 quid and 3 points type offences. It's when someone (and heaven forbid that it should be any of us) is involved in a serious incident, this could be used in evidence in a criminal or civil case and it may be for or against you.
| Darren wrote: | | All the more reason to drive responsibly then? If it acts as a useful reminder as to your driving behaviour it will have yet another benefit. |
Yes, the good old Policemans line "If you have nothing to hide then what's your problem".  I do find that the fear of death keeps me on the straight and narrow but my driving style on the bike is such that my preference is to have plausible deniability on my side rather than a video and GPS tracklog if you get what I mean. It's the difference between "I think you were doing xx MPH there and me responding, I'm really not sure what speed I was doing". The evidence against me may be weak and in the absence of a confession there may be no case.
Of course it could help you if you were stopped and they overestimate your speed - I was once accused of doing a speed that was patently ridiculous and would have constituted a very serious offence if true (it wasn't). The officer insisted that I admit it and he would let me off with a warning but I refused to admit anything - I'd not committed the offence he claimed. I challenged the officer to drive through the section of road at even half the speed he claimed I was doing and he backed down eventually. He was very unpleasant from the outset though - I guess he was just having a bad day. 
As for the evidence being admissible in court, it could certainly be tampered with and the court would consider the reliability of the evidence when making a judgement. However, with proper handling and record of the chain of custody for the evidence, it will be taken fairly seriously in court. As corroborating evidence it may well be useful and in a civil court (where it is most likely to be used) there is a lower burden of proof.
It's definately each to their own on this one. If you are a cautious driver and keep largely within the law then this would be a good thing to have. I can certainly see how a fleet operator would like to install a load of these units. For a fleet operator it's a good situation. If it was his driver at fault he disciplines the driver and never offers the evidence to the other party. If his driver was in the clear, he can bring a civil case against the other party using the video as evidence.
A friend had one of his fleet drivers (allegedly) cut in front of a bus causing it to brake heavily. A passenger on the bus claims personal injury and they have a multimillion pound civil case hanging over them. The CCTV evidence from the bus is being used against them. They claim that the case is frivolous and this is all covered by insurance of course, but they have taken a massive hit on their premiums while the case is pending (and it will be some time before it's resolved).
If the case is dismissed, the only ones who win are the lawyers and the insurance company who get to keep the extra premiums paid during the protracted claim. 
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tekwiz
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 24, 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Roadhawk |
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| Have a look at www.drivers-eye.com They are doing the same device cheaper and the info on their pages is far more detailed. Lots of sample videos to play with too. |
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tekwiz
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 24, 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| BTW, I got one from drivers-eye a few days ago and tried to hack the video. The file format is proprietary and although you can get a convertor to change it to AVI, the GPS and gforce data is only in the original format so you lose it on the AVI. If you use the supplied viewer there is no edit funtions and the Video is time/date stamped too and as its encrypted you cant alter it. Just waiting to see if someone crashes into me so I can show the nice judge.. |
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Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Re: RoadHawk |
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| Murdoc wrote: | This is my first time on the forum so please forgive any errors in etiquette!
My question would be is this device approved in any way/by anyone, videos can be fiddled with so would the data be admissible in a British court?
I like the idea of it, but if it’s not admissible then it's an expensive gadget.
The price of cameras not I’m sure it could be modified so it can have a second camera that looks out the back as well |
The data and the software has been designed such that the original files cannot be tampered with thus making them more evidence worthy.
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Darren Griffin |
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Wannabyourhero
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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wondering how the review of the product is coming along - can't locate it yet. Something similar is the T-eye which records images front and back though looks like it might be a fiddle to put on and take off whereas Roadhawk looks like it could almost sit on a bean bag on the dash.
Looking forward to the review. |
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
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The RoadHawk has far surpassed expectations. I'd hoped to have a review up sooner but summer hols got in the way. Busy writing it now.
It works very well, the picture quality is good and it ticks all the boxes. So much so that I'm going to buy one.
Give me a few days and I'll get the review up ASAP.
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Darren Griffin |
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mediaguycouk
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Joined: Jul 04, 2009
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Can we win it in a competition or are you sending it back? |
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Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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This is a loaner but I'll see what we can do.
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Darren Griffin |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14902
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Could we make it a competition limited to just old Moderators who are fat and grumpy and live within a 10 miles radius of Bristol? (Bristol UK).
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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