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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: Moans about Lifetime Subscriptions
I'm getting ever more angry about the tiny minority of subscribers who think there is some con in operation in the Lifetime Subscriber offer.
Each week we get a few emails from users intimating that a report that was definitely the first and absolutely a qualifying report did not earn them a Life Sub.
Now I'm a fairly placid sort but when someone thinks it acceptable to call us con men or suggest the offer is bogus or as claimed in the latest missive:
Quote:
Will you please tell me what is going on? There is no point in submitting if I cannot be confident that your systems work. Who was credited with this “camera spotting?”
There has been debate over lifetime membership awards and in the past I have always discounted such adverse comments but since becoming a paid up subscriber this is the second camera I have submitted and both times have received no accreditation.
You need transparency in this matter if your reputation is to be upheld.
I believe I qualify for a lifetime membership
When I get these, once I have calmed down I have to spend 20mins looking at the history of the camera in question. In this case we have had the Mobile since 2007, it was purged in Oct 2008 and re-activated in Mar 2009.
From now on I will not rise to the bait and waste my time looking into the history of these, anyone making allegations such as this will be told to post them here where I'm confident the membership who know the offer is true can shoot them down.
Words fail me, well they don't but words I can use here do. No matter how fair and simple we try to make this, there is always someone intent on claiming a conspiracy or con is operating _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:
Well the subscriber in question, well former subscriber hence his moan about no getting a Lifer can go elsewhere if he pleases.
We work darned hard, have a great service and are the ONLY ones to offer the Lifer Award but I don't want money from people like that, I'd far rather they gave £60 to their local magistrates _________________ Darren Griffin
It may be a good idea just to send a standard pre written reply and state that you will not enter into any more correspondence on the issue and if you have been fortunate to qualify you will be informed
I know it must be hard to just ignore these requests but this subject comes up to often and some of the posts on the forum are in my mind unacceptable .
The system is quite clear and yes I have been fortunate to receive a Lifetime membership award !! I have also been first to report a camera when I already had the award but each time I was aware I was the first to report the camera by the symbol on the submission map which showed I was the first !! so the system is completely transparent
Just off to check my Lottery numbers I am sure I won last week I feel a email coming on
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject:
I think the problem is that people either can't understand, or just don't take the time to understand, the submission process and how it is shown on the map.
WE know that it clearly says that you only see YOUR OWN submissions on the map and that if you were the first, then the coloured box will soon show up to show you were the first, and you now have an un-verified submission.
But many people will just go to the submission map, see there's nothing showing at that spot, and are then convinced they must be the first one to report it.
WE know that if every single submission for each camera was shown on the map straight away, then it would be a complete mass of "scatter gun" icons because of the vagueness and inaccuracy of a lot of them, that's why MaFt has to sort them all out. But people just don't seem to get this. - as far as they are concerned, it's "no icon, I'm first!"
To be honest, I don't know how it could be said more clearly on the map page than it is already, but maybe an extended version could be written that points it out even more (with examples).
Then you then could just point any complainers to that explanation and hope that placates them.
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject:
Well I personally think that the cost of the subscription over a periodof one year is great value at £0.0547671 per day or £0.002282 per hour.
What else can you get for that sort of investment?
To those that believe that this is a con - get a life. It's no con. Read the FAQs and have a look at the link in DennisN's posts to see just how hard the verifiers work and then add the work that MaFt has to do to maintain the database.
If you don't like it, don't subscribe, simple as that. If all you're here for is a freebee, then perhaps you should go elsewhere.
I've submitted a couple of mobiles in the past, they didn't get verified because they were only there a couple of times, so I didn't get a Lifer award. Will that stop me submitting any more cameras I see? Will it . I'll keep looking and sending as long as I can.
To all the Editors, Mods, Verifiers and dB Admins - Keep Up The Good Work. _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course!
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:13 am Post subject:
M8TJT wrote:
Andy_P wrote:
(otherwise toss them to the forum lions! )
Do you mean DennisN
Thanks for that!
I reckon you should set them back on themselves (hoist 'em on a petard or summink), by issuing an auto-reply as follows "You will have received an auto-response email acknowledging receipt of your submission, saying something like this..."
Quote:
Hi DennisN,
Many thanks for your submission, it is very much appreciated. As a direct result of such contributions the speed camera database will continue to be widely regarded as the best available.
For your information, the details of the camera(s) you have submitted are shown below:
Removal of: Reversible Mobile (ID#67342), Heading: 100, Lat:51.53232, Lon:-3.54276 (United Kingdom), Speed:70, [67342] Reject because there is no bridge at these coordinates. And ignore this submission anyway which I\'ve already dealt with elsewhere - I\'m just testing to see what the auto-response email says!
"Could you please check the details on your email against the camera shown on the map page. If the coordinates, heading, type and speed on the map page are different in any way from those shown in your autoresponse, then you did not make the submission which has now been incorporated".
However we have been making these sort of comments for ages "We're fed up of people grumbling" "We won't answer them because it takes up so much time which we could spend on the database instead" "They should read all the information first before they jump in with both feet". Yet here we are again with yet another angle. Remember, when we've previously sat back hoping to allow ordinary members to answer these complaints, the complainant invariably howls that the Admin don't have the guts or common courtesy to answer.
I'm afraid, Darren, that you (all Admin) are in a cleft stick here. The short answer is " off and stop wasting my time! - if you qualify for a free lifetime membership, you'll get it." But as you very well know (and to your credit, it's how you invariably react all the time) that's not the way to treat customers. So you don't tell them to B off. You try to be reasonable. But you're on a loser 9 times out of 10 - either the complainant comes back with increased grief, or you spend ages "just this one last time" looking up all the information to demonstrate where the complainant missed out. None of the "customers" seem to understand that only about two people can access the data in order to provide the answers and that looking it up takes time - not a lot of time, but "not a lot of time" a lot of times IS a lot of time. The person who asks for not a lot of time is totally unaware of the fact that a lot of other persons are asking for not a lot of time.
Straight, simple answer is to amend (THEN LOCK) this thread to give all the explanation, PLUS ending up with "You have been referred to this thread instead of any of us taking time off from administration to deal with your complaint." Then, every time a complaint comes in, if it's another new topic, insert a simple post linking to this thread, saying you have now locked the new topic; if it's an email, reply with a simple link to this thread.
Maybe Andy_P and M8TJT have the right idea and you should hand them over to me - I'll soon be over 69 and I bet I'll get really grumpy then! _________________ Dennis
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:46 am Post subject:
Just interested (and just back from the pub ) so this might be an impracticable suggestion.
I note in the thread about peoples' own submissions being shown on the map. Is there a way that 'rejected' ones can be shown in a suitable colour on the submission map temporarily with a suitable comment (not necessarily DennisN's - how did that get through the censor ) appended if possible (but don't know if your system allows such 'notes' to icons).
If this was a basis for a workable idea it could be explained in the submission guidelines. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Richard got it right - these people need to get a life!
With so many spotters out there, being the first to find a new camera is bound to be a bit of a lottery.
Now remind me, is the purpose of submitting camera locations about making sure we have a comprehensive and accurate database, or winning the equivalent of around twenty quid a year???
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject:
It will not come as a surprise that by far the most moans are from those who submit only one or two locations, purely with the aim of securing free membership. They care not about continuing to support the service..
Those who continually submit are more likely to secure an award and unsurprisingly a large proportion continue to submit after becoming Lifetimers. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject:
As unpaid Verifiers who don't get paid any mileage either , last Friday Bo Peep and I drove approximately 100 miles to verify 7 mobile sites in Oxfordshire and Berkshire. We accepted 6 out of the 7, the only one that we rejected had poor comments that didn't match the layout of the area.
Why do we drive so far to verify? Well it's not to do with the money because we don't get any! We do it because people have been good enough to submit cameras and we want our area to be as accurate as possible for people and know that all other verifies feel the same. We also do it because it's fun.
People should submit sites in order to help the accuracy of the database, if they are lucky enough to get lifetime subscription then all well and good.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15311 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject:
BigPerk wrote:
Just interested (and just back from the pub ) so this might be an impracticable suggestion.
I note in the thread about peoples' own submissions being shown on the map. Is there a way that 'rejected' ones can be shown in a suitable colour on the submission map temporarily with a suitable comment (not necessarily DennisN's - how did that get through the censor ) appended if possible (but don't know if your system allows such 'notes' to icons).
If this was a basis for a workable idea it could be explained in the submission guidelines.
a nice idea, but technically not gonna happen! we currently have 766,765 submissions and about 26,000 cameras... that's an awful lot of 'rejected' submissions to have to process and display on the map. bandwidth issues aside, there would likely be quite a slow-down on the map page for those who submit a lot.
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. I'll keep looking and sending as long as I can.
off and stop wasting my time! - if you qualify for a free lifetime membership, you'll get it." But as you very well know (and to your credit, it's how you invariably react all the time) that's not the way to treat customers. So you don't tell them to B off. You try to be reasonable. But you're on a loser 9 times out of 10 - either the complainant comes back with increased grief, or you spend ages "just this one last time" looking up all the information to demonstrate where the complainant missed out. None of the "customers" seem to understand that only about two people can access the data in order to provide the answers and that looking it up takes time - not a lot of time, but "not a lot of time" a lot of times IS a lot of time. The person who asks for not a lot of time is totally unaware of the fact that a lot of other persons are asking for not a lot of time.
) appended if possible (but don't know if your system allows such 'notes' to icons).
