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richard345 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: Camera Database Use In Germany |
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Hi All,
There is a possibility that I might be driving to the Heidelberg area of Germany later in the year and I was wondering if anyone knows the legallity of using the PGPSW databse on a TomTom 520.
I searched as best I could and found this thread: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=32031
which goes back to 2005 /2006, but I couldn't see anything else that addressed the issue.
I know I would have to add the Western Europe map to my device, but I would do so anyway for navigation.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course! |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know, POI-list-based camera databases (as opposed to radar detectors) are only illegal in Eire and Switzerland (which is why the Swiss cams aren't included in the database, I'm not sure why Irish ones are!).
Annother site agrees:
"GPS Speed Warning Devices, without incorporated radar detector, are perfectly legal in all countries, except in Switzerland" - www.gps-practice-and-fun.com |
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richard345 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Cheers Andy_P,
If I get the chance, I'll ask some work colleagues in Germany if they can make some enquiries _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course! |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Copied from germany-tourism.co.uk
Quote: | It is against the law for any driver to use or to carry a device which can interfere, predict or detect the location of any official traffic monitoring device, including and especially mobile or static speed cameras. The standard fine for this offence is €75 (and 4 points if you have a German Drivers Licence).
GPS or sat navs which give warnings about fixed speed camera locations are not permitted either, this function must be deactivated before the navigation system can used. |
_________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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richard345 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that - it now makes me more confused than ever!
If this is the case according to law in Germany, then perhaps the database should be changed to reflect this?
If and when I hear back from my colleagues in Germany, I'll post the comments back. _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course! |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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I really have difficulty in understanding why we don't publish speed camera data for Switzerland. The fact that it is illegal to use them in Switzerland should be immaterial, as it should be up to the user to decide whether to break the law or not the same as for everywhere else we publish cams.
It should be pretty much the same as it being legal for a retailer to sell something, but illegal for the buyer to use it; radar/laser detectors/blockers spring to mind.
It is illegal in the UK to exceed the posted speed limit but we publish data so that speeders need not be caught along with statements such as “…do not condone speeding”.{but here it is in case you want it}
Now, before you start on about it, why would you want speed camera alerts if you did not deliberately break the law by exceeding the speed limit? The “occasional slight drift over the speed limit” excuse does not wash because this is admitting driving without due care and attention (you should be aware at all times of the speed limit, and more importantly your actual speed) so you deserve to be caught.
Come on admit it, the reason that you choose to use the PGPSW database is because it’s the best, most up to date, most accurate and most of all, most likely that it will prevent you picking up points and a fine for speeding or driving without due care and attention, both of which are against the law in UK. So it should be available for Switzerland as well for the same reasons. |
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richard345 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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M8TJT wrote: |
Now, before you start on about it, why would you want speed camera alerts if you did not deliberately break the law by exceeding the speed limit? The “occasional slight drift over the speed limit” excuse does not wash because this is admitting driving without due care and attention (you should be aware at all times of the speed limit, and more importantly your actual speed) so you deserve to be caught. |
I think that interpretation may be just a little harsh. I was enquiring about the use of the database in Germany, mainly because it is over 6 years since I last drove there (Zeebrugge - Heidelberg - Zeebrugge in 3 days) and I will be using a right-hand drive car in an area I am not familier with. Although my car's speedometer does have KPH marks, I will not be looking at it at all times, since I will be concentrating on the road ahead and my mirrors.
To have an audible warning of speed sensitive areas is a bonus and will assist me in completing a task I am not particularly looking forward to! _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course! |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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richard345 wrote: | Although my car's speedometer does have KPH marks, I will not be looking at it at all times, since I will be concentrating on the road ahead and my mirrors.
To have an audible warning of speed sensitive areas is a bonus and will assist me in completing a task I am not particularly looking forward to! |
I can't read the KPH graduations very well on mine either, so I agree with your sentiments.
You have a PM |
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richard345 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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M8TJT wrote: | I can't read the KPH graduations very well on mine either, so I agree with your sentiments.
You have a PM |
Sorry - no PM visible in my inbox after some 3 hours.
Can you try again, please? _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course! |
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MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15226 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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in switzerland it is illegal to have them on the device whether the device is in use or not.
how many people would know how to go through the EUR database and remove only the swiss cameras?
hence it was simpler for all to 'remove' the database.
MaFt |
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M8TJT The Other Tired Old Man
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: | in switzerland it is illegal to have them on the device whether the device is in use or not.
how many people would know how to go through the EUR database and remove only the swiss cameras?
hence it was simpler for all to 'remove' the database.
MaFt |
Not me. OK MaFt. I give in |
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