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One problem with increasing speed limits because car capabilities have improved is that unfortunately, human evolution and attitudes can't keep up with the speed that engineering evolves at. We're lulled into a false sense of security because all the saftey devices, airbags, ABS etc.
I can't remember who said it but we'd all drive very differently if there was a steel spike sticking out from the steering wheel!!
Abusing the police and name calling is great fun I'm sure and telling everyone about how badly you drive is even better! _________________ It seems I don't know anything after all
Joined: 15/08/2003 19:24:12 Posts: 223 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject:
Agree, calling the cops all sorts of things makes me feel great. However, I don't consider myself a bad driver just because I got frustrated with one idiot driver on a quiet road. I've been doing 40-50,000 miles per year for the past 9 years in my job and never had an accident. I would consider myself highly experienced on the road but the cops won't take that into consideration of course if I was stopped for speeding.
Joined: 07/06/2003 16:45:14 Posts: 114 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:41 am Post subject:
russgunn wrote:
Agree, calling the cops all sorts of things makes me feel great. However, I don't consider myself a bad driver just because I got frustrated with one idiot driver on a quiet road. I've been doing 40-50,000 miles per year for the past 9 years in my job and never had an accident. I would consider myself highly experienced on the road but the cops won't take that into consideration of course if I was stopped for speeding.
Again, let's not confuse breaking the speed limit with "speeding", nor with driving badly.
If the Vauxhall driver didn't see you in her mirrors, why would you expect her to see you overtaking on the inside? What do you expect would have happened to your "unblemished" driving record had she decided, at that moment, to pull over into the inside lane?
Come back to me when you've had 20 to 30 years driving experience; if you manage to live that long and not kill someone else in the process.
Joined: 15/08/2003 19:24:12 Posts: 223 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:13 am Post subject:
Fuego wrote:
Again, let's not confuse breaking the speed limit with "speeding", nor with driving badly.
If the Vauxhall driver didn't see you in her mirrors, why would you expect her to see you overtaking on the inside? What do you expect would have happened to your "unblemished" driving record had she decided, at that moment, to pull over into the inside lane?
Come back to me when you've had 20 to 30 years driving experience; if you manage to live that long and not kill someone else in the process.
I would expect that if she were to do that, then she would do the same if I was passing her on the 'lawful' side of the road. Either way, people who haven't a clue what's going on either side of or behind them need to go back to driving school. People need to realise that unwittingly holding people up can cause many other problems. Besides, what makes you an expert on this subject? Or is it you we're all stuck behind most of the time?
For your info I wasn't the only one stuck behind this particular driver, just one of about seven. In France it's common law to pull over and let cars by if the queue behind you is over 10 cars in length. Same law should apply here in my opinion.
It wouldn't be much consolation to yours or the lady's relatives, but at least had you been overtaking on the correct side you could tell St.Peter that it was her fault not yours.
Regarding going back to driving school, I've had a long cherished dream that one day, every driver would be re-tested every two years and then be allowed to drive a car commensurate with their abilities. So for example the lady who you undertook would only be allowed to drive something no more powerful than a Skoda, while you might be allowed a Trabant.
I, of course, would get a push bike. _________________ It seems I don't know anything after all
Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21 Posts: 3747 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject:
timtim wrote:
Regarding going back to driving school, I've had a long cherished dream that one day, every driver would be re-tested every two years and then be allowed to drive a car commensurate with their abilities.
I'm coming up to my RoSPA Advanced Driver's Association retest - some time towards the end of the year.
Unfortunately I've had a really rough time since my last test - including five months off driving after a serious impact (I was hit from behind whilst stationary with my handbrake on at traffic lights). My poor health means I haven't been doing much mileage (and yes - before anyone asks, my disability is declared to DVLA and all my doctors know I am driving).
As a result, I haven't yet got out with an observer since my last test 2.5 years ago - and I wish now I had. However, it's impossible to progress in your driving if you aren't doing much mileage, and I had plenty from my last test report and re-reading Roadcraft to keep me busy. Part of my problem when training for my first test is that my mileage was so low compared to many.
I do support the idea that you can only keep your RoADA grade if you retest every three years. I hope to hang on to my Silver at least - I'd like to get Gold this time. I'll aim for Gold as always and see what happens (last time - my first RoADA test, I was told I was borderline Gold but in the end the examiner decided it was a near miss and gave me a Silver grade).
In fact, whilst writing this post I've made a couple of phone calls to track down an observer who'll take me on and I'm now expecting a call back later tonight. Unfortunately all the information I have to hand from the local RoADA group is out of date <sigh>. I'm grateful for this thread - it's kicked me into doing something I should have done some time ago and I'm determined to try to get myself to test standard as quickly as possible rather than apply to the Chief Examiner for a deferral on health grounds.
Whilst the idea seems daunting at first, you learn a huge amount when a serving or former Police Class 1 driver sits in your passenger seat, tells you to drive around for about 75 minutes, and writes a comprehensive report on you. That's a description of a RoADA test. The big laugh was that the examiner in my last test was the guy who taught me to drive - he was a traffic officer in the Met, then Bedfordshire Police before retiring from the police and becoming a driving instructor. I promised him at the time I'd take the RoADA test, and he tells me I'm the first pupil he taught to drive who he knows did go on to take the RoADA test. I have a lot to thank John Robinson for.
For those that are interested - and I can't recommend it highly enough - http://www.roada.org.uk
It won't cost you very much money - basically just some fuel and about 50 pounds - and it may save your life. I think timtim would support the view that driving is a case of lifelong learning. Pilots have to recertify periodically - why not drivers?
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:25 am Post subject:
timtim wrote:
While speed might be the direct result of that 7.3% of accidents, it surely must be a contributary factor in a great deal of others.
Of the 7.3% of accidents where speed was a direct result, in a fair percentage of these cases the speeds involved were not in excess of the posted speed limit. So, imagine someone crashes while doing 65 MPH on an icy motorway or hits a pedestrian while doing 25 mph down Oxford Street. Excessive speed (for the conditions) would be deemed to be a major factor in this type of crash, even though the speed is still less than the posted speed limit.
The fact is that the UK has the safest roads in the world, we don't need more draconian law enforcement on the roads. This is just driven by a money grabbing government intent on milking the cash cow that is the motorist.
Is it not true that they can only use equipment to confirm their suspisions that you are speeding. Can anyone see a car 2000yds away and say it is speeding?
You know and I know and every police officer knows that Laser/radar are strictly a moneygrab. If they were not, then why do the police not address the other problems on the road?
I have seen all to many times where a person will tailgate, cross three lanes of traffic to get to the off ramp, or just generally driving without concern for the people in other vehicles...do we see the police addressing these problems? Nope and the reason why not in my opinion is that would take actual human interaction as well as actual policing and it does not bring in the $$ that radar does.
I speed at times and venture to say that virtually every driver does at some point, but I always try to maintain a safe distance between myself and other vehicles as well as plan ahead on where I want to go.
Nope there is not such thing as police officers any more, but we doe have glorified speed officers.
Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 am Post subject: Speed Cameras + limits
Hi Girls and Guys.
I am v new to this board
The Law and the present Government are ASSes. This is not in dispute, especially today.
Speed of course kills. Any personal momentum has potential to cause injury to others.
Speed in inappropriate areas is the real killer.
Speed cameras do nothing to reduce traffic speeds otherwise there would be zero tickets by now, and no fines, and no ongoing controversy about them. It really is that simple.
The asinine officials behind this policy, plus the politicians who support and repeat the senseless mantra ‘That speed kills’, will result only in an increase in people driving whilst banned.
It is beyond belief to expect that in the UK, with its very mobile work force, and total lack of Police cars on the road, that people with families and mortgages are going to stop driving if/when banned and therefore loose their jobs and homes!
All this policy will achieve is to criminalise a generally law abiding sector of the population, The banned will carry on driving because the personal cost of not doing so is too unthinkable. As a result their insurance will be invalid, and who will then suffer if there is an accident? Of course the rest of the population.
This country need officials, such as the North Wales Police Chief, Richard Brunstrom like a hole in the head. He persecutes motorist and yet his police force is a joke when it come to catching theives. Great stuff!
What has happened to the Police Chiefs in the UK mirrors, what has happened to Politicians. They have become “Professional”, and as a result most have never had a proper job in their life. Take one Gordon Brown for instance.
Go back 30yrs and we had Police Chiefs and Politicians who had experience in the real world and therefor understood the some of problems of everyday life. Today, both categories are justifiably despised and hated. They are cretinous, for they treat the rest of us like idiots
I am a 'Grumbly old Fart' of 59 who was brought up to respect authority, and instinctively had respect for the Police. When They have lost my support, and the support of people of my generation, which they have, they have lost the plot big time, and have big problems.
They will have no support or assistance from me, quite possibly the reverse (see below) the sad thing is, that they at the top are unable or unwilling to accept that this is the case
Both my cars are now registered to an accommodation address and in many other instances I am invisible. I’m not about to fill Gordon Browns coffers, or about to be banned. I accept the risks the strategy entails.
What do I know about driving? I have had licence since 1962 and have had only 3 accidents of any consequence, all within 2 years of getting my first car. I also spent 10yrs in Nigeria. If you know Nigeria, you know what I mean.
In the early 70s I used to do Lagos (West Africa) to London and the reverse across the Sahara desert by Range Rover in 7-10 days.That included two ferry crossings. Also doing that was one Ginger Baker who had been the drummer in the Band CREAM a late 60s Super band!
We were nicknamed the Marakesh Express. No, no drugs, just crucial Oil Industry parts.
Sorry to irritate you with my rant, but I do dislike the smug ‘Don’t break the Law’ twits.
I think they fall into the category of ‘Useful Idiots’ for the Goverment and officialdom.
Most sensible people obey sensible laws, and break others that are not sensible.
Life really can be very simple, only modern Politicians and officials make it more complicated than it need be.
I have seen all to many times where a person will tailgate, cross three lanes of traffic to get to the off ramp, or just generally driving without concern for the people in other vehicles...do we see the police addressing these problems? Nope and the reason why not in my opinion is that would take actual human interaction as well as actual policing and it does not bring in the $$ that radar does.
One reason is that the CPS are reluctant to use court time pursuing prosecutions for such behaviour, and it has little to do with the police opinions.
When I was in the job and saw bad driving I made a point of stopping the driver and trying to tell (usually) him the error of his ways. Rarely would it end in me reporting him for any offence. I have to say that most drivers accepted this with good grace, though whether it changed their driving habits is open to question.
It seems to me (especially if some of the posters to this thread are representative) that drivers are becoming more aggressive both in their actual driving and in their attitude to anyone impudent enough to question their skills.
BrFox
The fact that you may have been driving since 1962 and only had 3 accidents of any consequence (how many inconsequential accidents, and of consequence to whom?) may say more about the skill of other drivers avoiding you than anything else.
If you will give no assistance to the police, does that absolve them of giving assistance to you or your family if they are involved in an accident, get mugged or raped, or have their house contents stolen?
Who defines what a sensible law is? It seems you believe that complete anarchy is the solution. _________________ It seems I don't know anything after all
Joined: 15/08/2003 19:24:12 Posts: 223 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:08 am Post subject:
I assume from your words 'when I was in the job' timtim you mean you were a police officer? I hope so because ordinarily you have absolutely no right to follow and pull someone over for bad driving. Lest we forget, that's the job of the Police and if you weren't aware, following someone for any reason is actually against the law. Everyone in this country has civil rights, even bad drivers, whether you think that is right or not is irrelavent.
With regards to BrFox's comments, which some might find anarchistic, I do understand why... A colleague of mine saw two drivers from a very well known global courier company pocket loads of digital camera memory cards from one of our deliveries. He followed them for a couple of miles in order to see where they were going and then called the police to help out. When they arrived HE was arrested for harrassment and the thieves went on their way. Work that one out! They wonder why the general public are reluctant to help them out!
I have nothing but respect for the law in most cases, after all if it wasn't for them I couldn't sell them all the film they use in their safety cameras! However, this doesn't mean I'm not a valid member of the general public who still feels certain sectors of the Police Force are useless and somewhat pro criminal. FACT: A: driver caught doing 36 in 30mph limit, stopped, first offence, ticket issued, fine and points, 30 minutes police time. B: Van outside my house being turned over by 3 kids, with bricks and cricket bat to get tools out the back and possibley take the van, called the police, not interested until it's actually stolen and driven by inexperienced, underage, unlicensed, uninsured idiots.
Perhaps this imbalance in policing our society is the cause of your suggestion people are getting more aggressive? Who knows?
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