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I've updated the name and shame thread with the last year's worth of thieves.
Bear in mind that for every one of these scumbags the database will have been distributed hundreds of times and you can get a feel for how badly this damages our business.
When we had the monthly sub we were getting a dozen of these a month so the move to annual only has at least stemmed the flood to a steady trickle.
I think scumbags and thieves is a little out of order.
I may have this wrong so please bear with me.
The original database was free and collated by like minded individuals on a free internet forum.
You then get people to update your database, by adding and deleting camera sites? Having collated all this info you then distribute it and charge people for it use?
You then argue that the database aides road safety, but anyone else distributing it freely or otherwise is a scumbag. Are they not also aidding road safety?
Or maybe despite your words, you actually agree, its just a way for speeding motorists to break the law with impunity. Ie quite the reverse of aiding road safety?
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject:
Apart from the pirated PocketGPSWorld.com databases that contains purposely incorrect information, it's also worth noting that anybody who obtains a copy illegally is much more likely to be using a VERY out of date version.
Astonishing I know but the suppliers actually lie about the release dates, i.e. you think you're getting the latest version, but all they have in fact done is changed or advertised a different release date.
I'll wager that quite of few 'innocents' that have utilised pirated versions over the years have a few extra points on their licenses because of this. In fact I'm sure of it
It's quite amusing when they come onto the forums to complain _________________ Robert Brady
Joined: Aug 18, 2008 Posts: 82 Location: North Wales UK
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:
There will always be people who will subscribe then pass on/sell data, and the precautions already in place are probably the limits of what this site can do to protect this particular data, and according to what I have read in this thread, does seem to be working.
I recently posted a pirate link to POI's,... Low bridges ect... in my ignorance, as a novice sat nav owner, I did not realise this was data ripped from a legitimate site... I suffered the embarresment of the link deleted, and the reason for deletion added to the topic... so I PM'd management to apologise... will be more vigilant in the future, as I believe pirating, if left unchecked, will degrade the legitimate apps/ect available, eventually .
Quote:
Is there any way of adding an extra password, once the database is installed on the gps? this would make it harder for those that hack into ones PC's at work.
If you are worried about hackers at work, would it not be sensible to move the data onto removable media, after updating your device ?
Alan. _________________ Tom Tom Go 520 - Map UK ROI 720.1803 Navcore_8.204.9718.go40 - ( Loquendo TTS7 ) / RDS-TMC /Tyre... purchased the Go mainly for the itinerary feature
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject:
I can't let this pass without comment.
lif3mouldnn wrote:
I think scumbags and thieves is a little out of order.
Oh? if you spent 14 hrs a day working on something and then found your work shared and robbed from under your feet would you be miffed?
The data doesn't magically appear in formats suitable for all the devices, it doesn't magically error check itself! If it were that easy we wouldn't be here.
Quote:
I may have this wrong so please bear with me.
The original database was free and collated by like minded individuals on a free internet forum.
You then get people to update your database, by adding and deleting camera sites? Having collated all this info you then distribute it and charge people for it use?
WE Started the original database, in fact we were the first to recognise the possibility of using GPS POIs for this purpose. WE (a small group of us who started this site) captured all the locations in our respective areas and launched when we had some data worth offering.
When we moved to a subscription service we gave EVERYONE who had contributed in any way prior to the charge a free lifetime subscription. So one report got you free updates for life!
Since charging was introduced we have added 30+ additional countries, dozens of supported devices, verification, weekly updates and still reward those who contribute with free subs. Very few of the actual user base bother to contribute so why shouldn't they pay for the service they benefit from?
We all work very hard on this site, if we weren't charging for the database it wouldn't be here now. There are many other free options and all are dire in the extreme with hundreds of duplicates, non-existent sites and missing cameras. No-one is forced to subscribe.
Next we'll be suggesting that crash helmets cause motorcyclists to ride faster and we should replace seat-belts with spikes on the steering wheel to force them to drive safely! The database is a warning device, it serves to WARN motorists, remind them of their speed, it is not some magical system that allows us all to flout speed limits nor would we want it to be. _________________ Darren Griffin
Oh? if you spent 14 hrs a day working on something and then found your work shared and robbed from under your feet would you be miffed?
I work in the education sector, so yes this is what happens to my work.
Miffed? Not me. You obviously are.
However if your telling me you spend 14 hrs a day on database management, on what I would call a smallish public data set, I think your doing something wrong.
Quote:
WE Started the original database....
I don't think that is true, I remember several years ago the databases were freely available from this site and others. camera POI were available from many different sources including this website. I don't think WE started the original database is accurate.
And as previously stated the data in the database is clearly not yours, hence not yours to sell. The packaging maybe, but the data definately not.
Quote:
Next we'll be suggesting that crash helmets cause motorcyclists to ride faster and we should replace seat-belts with spikes on the steering wheel to force them to drive safely! The database is a warning device, it serves to WARN motorists, remind them of their speed, it is not some magical system that allows us all to flout speed limits nor would we want it to be.
The last paragraph is clearly rubbish. I seem to have hit a nerve.
You say the database is designed to make drivers drive safely, and actually its used to tell people were cameras are not and hence sppeding is encouraged in those areas. The truth is that is what the database is used for, I personally have no problem with that, but you obviously do. You want to pretend that it's an aid to safe driving, and I take the opposite view. However if it an aid to safe driving then other people distributing the database can only be agood thing surely?
Lastly whoever wrote this:
Quote:
Apart from the pirated PocketGPSWorld.com databases that contains purposely incorrect information, it's also worth noting that anybody who obtains a copy illegally is much more likely to be using a VERY out of date version.
I hope that they are not suggesting that Pocket GPSWorld.com are deliberately furnishing people with incorrect data. If you are then you will find yourself in court, and quite rightly so.
Admin Edit: Quote tag added to make it easier to read and understand. PaulB2005
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject:
Quote:
However if your telling me you spend 14 hrs a day on database management, on what I would call a smallish public data set, I think your doing something wrong.
I'm not telling you anything, you work in education and clearly there is nothing left for you to learn!
Quote:
I hope that they are not suggesting that Pocket GPSWorld.com are deliberately furnishing people with incorrect data. If you are then you will find yourself in court, and quite rightly so.
That is hysterical! And what do you suggest the charge would be?
I'm not going to bother responding further, you're clearly an expert and I have better things to occupy my time with. _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
If one takes the point of view that deliberatley planted incorrect information is misleading to users, then most of the software purchased on the high street must be illegal, for as I understand it, such deliberate ploys are common practice to enable developers to trace the data back to its source of piracy.
And who is to say what data included is incorrect! It could be anything that helps trace or stop piracy.
Now I must go and get my solicitor to sue the publisher of a book I bought off e-bay, there was several spelling mistakes that change the whole meaning of a sentence! _________________ Mick
Go 1005 in need of resuscitation
GO 950 Dead,
GO 920 Dead
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when i first signed up I thought that I was subscribing to the site and that the database was a benefit of being a member, therefore the data is not technically being sold is it?
I agree with others that if 'dodgy' data ends up in the hands of those that pirate it, or receive that pirated version, they get all they deserve. If we could download pirated software and then expected it to work perfectly, and get free updates and support, how would any business survive.
I'm not privvy to the teams working hours / arrangements, but as Darren said, the data is presented in several formats, even i can understand that takes a lot of crunching, even more so now that the release is weekly.
I know the staff can fight their own corner, but I for one was angry at the stance taken in recent posts and felt I had to speak.
Rant over _________________ Mike
TT GO6000 (Europe); iPhone and iPad Pro with iOS TT GO & MyDrive + CamerAlert
If one takes the point of view that deliberatley planted incorrect information is misleading to users, then most of the software purchased on the high street must be illegal, for as I understand it, such deliberate ploys are common practice to enable developers to trace the data back to its source of piracy.
And who is to say what data included is incorrect! It could be anything that helps trace or stop piracy.
Now I must go and get my solicitor to sue the publisher of a book I bought off e-bay, there was several spelling mistakes that change the whole meaning of a sentence!
You I'm afraid dont understand.
You are telling me that you are deliberately missing out safety cameras.
If someone using your planted "incorrect data' takes a sharp bend doing 40 because they don't realise it should be 30, and have an accident they could sue you, and would clearly win. Your excuse that they never paid for the data, would have no bearing on the result.
You are potentially putting lives at risk, maliciously.
Surely you can see that.
Unless of course your data isnt designed for 'safety' reasons in the first place. that's your argument not mine.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject:
lif3mouldnn wrote:
You I'm afraid dont understand.
Sorry, you continue to make yourself look foolish!
Quote:
You are telling me that you are deliberately missing out safety cameras.
Again, nobody is telling you anything, you wouldn't listen if we did.
Quote:
If someone using your planted "incorrect data' takes a sharp bend doing 40 because they don't realise it should be 30, and have an accident they could sue you, and would clearly win.
Our database is not a "speed limit' database so quite what this has to do with anything I fail to understand.
A sat-nav doesn't guarantee it has every road mapped, so are the sat-nav manufacturers liable if you drive off a cliff on an unmapped road or into traffic at a junction that was not forewarned, I'll save you the bother of replying, No.
Quote:
Your excuse that they never paid for the data, would have no bearing on the result.
You are potentially putting lives at risk, maliciously.
Surely you can see that.
Nope and I suspect you are the only one who 'sees' that!
Quote:
Unless of course your data isnt designed for 'safety' reasons in the first place. that's your argument not mine.
I don't see you have an argument whatsoever. _________________ Darren Griffin
Me doth think implementation of name and shame hath brought out the holier than holy.
The staff and moderators must be commended for allowing these posts, as it shows they have nothing to hide and highlights some of the rather interesting points of view from contributors. _________________ Mick
Go 1005 in need of resuscitation
GO 950 Dead,
GO 920 Dead
Last edited by Mick_1959 on Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
A sat-nav doesn't guarantee it has every road mapped, so are the sat-nav manufacturers liable if you drive off a cliff on an unmapped road or into traffic at a junction that was not forewarned, I'll save you the bother of replying, No.
If it was done malicously to encourage people to drive off the end of a cliff then the answer is YES.
Camera database's are used by people so they know where they can get away with speeding. You're arguement is that they are a safety aid. We differ here, thats fair enough.
However if you take your argument and then malicously corrupt the data, for the non paying folk, then you are in trouble.
If someone who uses your system for 'speeding' purposes in a 30mph zone with a camera is (deliberately)misled by you to beleive there isn't a camera, then they may drive at 40mph.
Run over a kid in this scenario and how can you defend your actions? Legally or morally?
You are telling me that you are deliberately missing out safety cameras.
No, no-one said that, you imagined it.
The statement was
Quote:
Apart from the pirated PocketGPSWorld.com databases that contains purposely incorrect information ....
It seems pretty clear to me that this refers to errors deliberately inserted in pirated copies, and nothing to do with the official database published on this site. Try reading it again without your blinkers on.
lif3mouldnn wrote:
If someone using your planted "incorrect data' takes a sharp bend doing 40 because they don't realise it should be 30,
Now you really are getting confused. The database lists the location of cameras, not speed limits or bends. No-one (except you, apparently) could possibly claim that it is acceptable to exceed safe speeds on a dangerous bend just because there is no camera present on that bend.
lif3mouldnn wrote:
and have an accident they could sue you, and would clearly win.
So now you are a legal expert as well!
It seems that you blundered into this site with the attitude that you know better than anyone else. Having realised your mistake, the right thing to do would have been to quietly leave instead of trying so unsuccessfully to justify yourself. There is a wise old saying that when you get yourself into a deep hole you should stop digging.
Was your previous login name on the banned list by any chance?
Am I to believe then that a Gatso camera not far from where I live, and listed on the Cambridgeshire Safety Camera Partnership website as being set to National speed limit, when in fact it is 40mph and has been for years, is deliberately encouraging speeding?
Despite numerous repeated requests for them to correct this, they still show it as National Speed Limit and this camera is located approaching a blackspot area.
Therefore, in your opinion, are the Cambridgeshire Safety Camera Partnership deliberatley encouraging speeding?
The PGPS camera data base has the correct speed for this camera and has done since I have been a member. _________________ Mick
Go 1005 in need of resuscitation
GO 950 Dead,
GO 920 Dead
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but the suppliers actually lie about the release dates, i.e. you think you're getting the latest version, but all they have in fact done is changed or advertised a different release date.
