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trapper Regular Visitor
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Heated windscreen and iCN 510 don't seem to agree |
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Hi.
My new car has a heated windscreen, tried my iCN 510 today and after 20 miles and 30 minutes it had found 1 satillite
Okay it has not been used for sometime and was always very slow at finding its position but do heated windscreens mess up the GPS signal that much
My wifes Mini with heated screen and her TT One seem happy together.
I know I need to upgrade the 510 but don't know what to go for I need good and clear UK coverage with possibly Europe as a maybe. Easy/full postcode entry, TMS. Speed cameras I get here and do not want to play music, watch DVD's etc. If possible one that I could use as a hand held when out walking would be an advantage.
Any suggestions We are touring next week so I need to act fast if I need to get a new SatNav.
Thanks in advance. |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Heated windscreen and iCN 510 don't seem to agree |
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trapper wrote: | Okay it has not been used for sometime and was always very slow at finding its position but do heated windscreens mess up the GPS signal that much |
Yes they are affected by athermic glass which makes GPS signal reception difficult, but driving around without a position lock will make matters even worse - try waiting for the device to get a signal outside the vehicle before fitting the iCN510 in the car - you might find this method works.
Look at the One XL Europe version, and it should still work inside your new car as they are fitted with a much better GPS receiver than the old Navman you currently have, although for traffic data I would look towards the GPRS traffic via your mobile phone. The One XL can use the RDS-TMC device but reception is patchy in the UK at the best of times, with your athermic windscreen it will have a very hard time receiving any data, your mobile phone should work more reliably though - Mike |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | We are touring next week so I need to act fast if I need to get a new SatNav. | As Mike says, if your car has an athermic windscreen e.g. Peugeot, Citroen, Renault (and other makes), you will have problems getting a lock whichever device you go for, but once you have a lock outside the car everything should work OK. (It does in my Citroen anyway). Heated, not heat resisting (athermic), screens shouldn't cause any problems.
With athermic screens there is a clear 'dotted' area in the centre at the top, which allows signals through. Set your device up in the centre of the dash (in line with the rear view mirror).
Enjoy your tour. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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trapper Regular Visitor
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your fast replies, the windscreen is heated as in it heats up to defrost, you can see very faint lines going vertically right across the screen. I will try a fix outside the car tonight to see if this improves the situation.
Being somewhat of a dunce how do you use a mobile for TMC reporting Wouldn't this be rather expensive Sorry to ask apparently silly questions |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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In which case you have a heated screen rather than a coated one, the heater elements do not affect the GPS reception, as you mentioned in the original post it was some time since you last used the device this will have a bearing on the issue.
The GPS device stores certain data about where the satellites will be on given dates/ times etc. once this "look up" table is out of date the device will download new data automatically from the satellites. This download can take between 10 and 20 minutes, then the device will be able to compute a position fix.
Now the unit has this data (known as almanac and ephemeris) the next position fix will be faster, see This Topic for additional explanation on what these terms mean and do for your device.
Downloading TMC data via a mobile phone is something the TomTom device can do but requires a Bluetooth connection that is compatible with the TomTom in order to work, it also requires an annual subscription.
Charges vary depending upon your mobile phone provider, they can be quite low to ludicrously high - check the small print with your phone provider to get an understanding of GPRS charges.
Also bear in mind that not all mobile phone accounts will work correctly, O2 on pay as you go only offers WAP enabled browsing and will not work for the TomTom services, however an O2 pay monthly account will work.
A question is never silly so don't refrain from asking, if you don't know the answer someone else will always assist (unless the question cannot be answered!) - Mike |
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trapper Regular Visitor
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Mike, your reply was very informative and I now know the differece between almanac and ephemeris
I will check on the phone charges as I am on a PAYG scheme with Orange, I do not use the phone much so pay monthly would cost me a lot more. PAYG is the cheapest option for me.
Best regards
Trapper |
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trapper Regular Visitor
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Orange GPRS Prices:
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pay as you go
* £1 bundle, for all day mobile access
* £2.00 daily capped rate, so you never pay more than this a day
* £5 for a week of anytime mobile internet access
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I will need to add TT Subscriptions of either €40 or €80.
This seems very expensive to me. Is there another (Cheaper) way to get TMC |
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Brickie64 Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Lincoln (UK)
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Trapper,
It's a while since I've used my iCN510 now but I did have similar experiences with some vehicles. I found no problem with the Ford Focus / Mondeo models with heated screens. Citroens, now that's a different story (athermic screens). In those cases, I always used a magnetic roof ariel connected via the MMCX connection on the unit, always gives good results. I've also got a re-radiating antenna which worked well but I understand there's some debate about whether they can be used now
The latest offerings from TomTom (*20 & *30 series) are far more sensitive receivers and I've never had a problem getting a signal in any vehicle.
Good luck
Gav _________________ "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible"
Garmin Nuvi 3598 + GO 720 (+USA Map Card) + NavFree for iPhone in case all else fails ;-) |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Brickie64 wrote: | I've also got a re-radiating antenna which worked well but I understand there's some debate about whether they can be used now |
Gav, there is no question as whether they can be used now, the simple fact is they were made illegal to sell or use within the UK, as reported nearly two years ago Here - although I doubt you would get caught using such a device in a moving vehicle - Mike |
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Brickie64 Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Lincoln (UK)
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Mike,
I understood at the time when this discussion took place (re-radiating antennas), the re-broadcasting units such as FM kit for iPods was illegal. A couple of years ago you were unable to buy the Belkin FM jobbie to plug into an MP3 from Dixons on the high street for that very reason (so they told me).
I see that Dixons and the other High St shops are now selling these devices. Does this mean that the restrictions for such devices have now been lifted ?
Cheers - Gav _________________ "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible"
Garmin Nuvi 3598 + GO 720 (+USA Map Card) + NavFree for iPhone in case all else fails ;-) |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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For the FM transmitters that work within 88 to 108MHz band they are OK as long as they are CE marked which means they have a very low power output and will not interfere with other transmissions/ receivers (or so the authorities have decided).
GPS re-rads operate in a much higher frequency area - circa 1,5GHz and are not except from requiring a license to operate such equipment (unless MoD/ military based hardware testing) - they are still therefore illegal, but I doubt a moving vehicle containing such a unit would be detected to be honest, due to the low power levels having a very much reduced range - Mike |
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Brickie64 Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 05, 2007 Posts: 158 Location: Lincoln (UK)
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Mike, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll only use it if no other option. To be honest the TT720 receiver is so good I doubt it will ever be needed anyway.
Guess we're a little off topic here with this - sorry...
Thanks - Gav _________________ "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible"
Garmin Nuvi 3598 + GO 720 (+USA Map Card) + NavFree for iPhone in case all else fails ;-) |
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trapper Regular Visitor
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well guys, just a tad off topic maybe
You were right of course Mike, I set the 510 up outside and it found its position fairly quickly and held it on the way home.
Now, where were we,,
I wrote
Quote: | Orange GPRS Prices:
Quote:
pay as you go
* £1 bundle, for all day mobile access
* £2.00 daily capped rate, so you never pay more than this a day
* £5 for a week of anytime mobile internet access
I will need to add TT Subscriptions of either €40 or €80.
This seems very expensive to me. Is there another (Cheaper) way to get TMC Question |
Went to Halfords today and looked at a Garmin Nuvi 660Fm and I think a 770, these have a lifetime subscription to traffic reports so would work out much cheaper than paying Orange for GPRS assuming the Garmin system is the same
I had a quick look at the specs of each and one thing puzzled me, the 770 had 10 'Routes' but the 660 had none, I know what a route is, the journey between A & B but in this instance does it mean you can travel and memorize up to 10 journey's
Any other good or bad points with either of the above? It seems these are okay for walking routes as well. |
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