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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: "Formatting" flash memory |
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Nearly had a disaster today...
I was trying out a bit of tweaking and had a computer glitch whilst loading to the Go which corrupted my 720's internal memory.
No problem... I have lots of Explorer backups, including one made 5 minutes before I started playing.
Started reloading and it chugged away for about ten minutes and then crashed the whole PC.
Tried again but now it kept saying "Cannot complete write. I/O device error"
Re-booted PC again, but as soon as I connected the Go, everything slowed to a crawl.
Decided to cut my losses and start again. Left the backup re-installing while I went to get a cup of tea, came back to find "Cannot copy cline.dat" Various messages along the lines of I/O error, corrupt file etc. etc.
Tried again, same thing happened.
Tried again with a PREVIOUS backup. Still no go.
Starting to sweat a bit by now...
Eventually I managed to coax it back to life by copying from today's backup, one folder at a time!
This is the first time I've ever had any problem like this, and I've reloaded backups LOADS of times.
Now... one thing I considered (whilst in panic mode!) was doing a "format" of the internal memory. Windows seemed to think I could, and said it was already formatted to FAT32, but wouldn't actually do it.
So, should I have been able to do it?
Is "formatting" memory as opposed to a drive possible or is it meaningless?
And the biggest question, why might I have been having so many problems today? If I'd been a new owner, I'd have been completely lost! |
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saikee Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 Posts: 21
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't format the internal disk inside TomTom myself.
This is my booting experience with any operating system. The disk storage has a boot sector immune to the formatting operation. Unless one knows how to connect the boot loader with the restored files one should not mess around the programs inside TomTom. Database maps, MP3, photos etc can be transferred out as they can be put into a SDHC card.
This is based on my experience of booting 150+ Dos, Windows, Linux, Solaris and BSD systems in a PC. The boot loader residing in the boot sector is not part of the filing system. A Fat32 partition, like every partition type used by the MS systems, has the first track permanently reserved as the boot sector. |
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46jimbo Regular Visitor
Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 185
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Will your unit boot up from an SD card? |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's all fine now (well back to normal!)
As I said, "gently" copying back one folder at a time managed it OK.
So my two questions really are:
1. Why did it start throwing up I/O errors? PC or TT to blame?
2. Does "formatting" actually mean anything on flash memory, or is it exactly the same as simply deleting everything? |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Andy_P2002 wrote: | So my two questions really are:
1. Why did it start throwing up I/O errors? PC or TT to blame?
2. Does "formatting" actually mean anything on flash memory, or is it exactly the same as simply deleting everything? |
You can indeed format flash memory and it does operate differently to a simple wipe. A format flushes various tables such as the FAT which a simple delete of files will not do.
The one thing you cannot do with flash (or at least if you do it is pointless!) is defragmentation. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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saikee Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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I view a partition having two parts.
The first part is the overhead section with the track reserved as the boot sector. Thereafter there will be the File Allocation Table or FAT which is an indexing system to assemble the files from different cylinders, heads and sectors of the hard disk.
The actual data is stored in the second part. Since a User may delete files from time to time a new file is unlikely to be placed on consecutive sectors or clusters but selected by the controller to optimize the access speed.
In formatting the File Allocation table is erased and rebuild. Although the second part of the data proper is untouched the information is as good as dead because the files cannot be re-assembled again without the original FAT. |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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saikee wrote: | In formatting the File Allocation table is erased and rebuild. Although the second part of the data proper is untouched the information is as good as dead because the files cannot be re-assembled again without the original FAT. |
Not strictly true, file recovery apps use that fact that deleting a file simply erases its entry in the FAT to allow them to recover the file.
The only secure way to delete a file is to use a secure format which writes to every sector of the storage thus erasing the original file. Even this can allow forensic recovery of a file unless you perform the write process many times. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Smartdriver Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 16, 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Andover, UK
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | Not strictly true, file recovery apps use that fact that deleting a file simply erases its entry in the FAT to allow them to recover the file. |
Not strictly true either, as it marks the FAT entry as deleted but doesn't delete the content of the FAT. Thus it's recoverable as a file UNTIL the FAT entry gets reused for another file. _________________ David
TT Go 6000
Previous Go 920T |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Which is what I said _________________ Darren Griffin |
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saikee Occasional Visitor
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 Posts: 21
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Which isn't what I said. Formatting a partition is not the same as deleting files. Besides one can change the filing system to another type too, say from Fat16 to Fat32. |
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Smartdriver Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 16, 2005 Posts: 35 Location: Andover, UK
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | Which is what I said |
We'll agree to differ then _________________ David
TT Go 6000
Previous Go 920T |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Yep, probably best, it's giving me a headache _________________ Darren Griffin |
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e61 Occasional Visitor
Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Andy_P2002 wrote: |
1. Why did it start throwing up I/O errors? PC or TT to blame?
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Most likely computer...
I had to go trough the same, with my new Go930.
I actually formated the internal as well, but same I/O error...
At last I found that the real time scanning of files from my a-virus program was to blame.
After turning off real time scanning, voila, back to normal...
Maybe a pointer in the right direction, I dont know in your case, but worth trying...? _________________ Best Regards
E61 Norway
Go930
8Gb SDHC Sandisk Extreme III |
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Pocketgps Lifetime Member
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 2145 Location: Midlands, UK
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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e61 wrote: | Andy_P2002 wrote: |
1. Why did it start throwing up I/O errors? PC or TT to blame?
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Most likely computer...
I had to go trough the same, with my new Go930.
I actually formated the internal as well, but same I/O error...
At last I found that the real time scanning of files from my a-virus program was to blame.
After turning off real time scanning, voila, back to normal...
Maybe a pointer in the right direction, I dont know in your case, but worth trying...? |
As e61 said it's the PC usually.
Before formatting any removable media or device I always reboot main PC, then turn off anti-virus and firewall - then format. If using Vista this can also stop a lot of things working if UAC is on. Turn it off (permanently). |
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