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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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What we need is a device that works with Open Street Mapping, this mapping data is free to use, the map doesn't have 100% coverage of the UK just yet but the coverage is increasing at a huge rate. OSM allows users to update the map, no car based device exists as yet to make use of this data, when it arrives it really will shake up the sat nav market in the UK inb a huge way - Mike |
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thezerocool Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2005 Posts: 24
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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As mikealder said... I cant help but wonder exactly how much you guys expected out of MapShare from your own visions? Thats no reason to start slagging it off now is it?
HummerUK: Im guessing the reason your slagging it off so much is becuase you have purchased a unit on your own misconceptions. The info is there if you search for it!
I personally think MapShare is great and ive seen several roads change in Sheffield and closures and they do appear through mapshare. Im sure there are loads that im totally unaware of too!
And do you honestly expect TomTom to allow you to "draw" a road onto the map and that suffice for a map update??? Think of the inaccurate data that would cause. Anything that needs to be measured (new roads, existing roads changing location, postcode because they cover a set area, city borders, etc) all need precision measuring equiptment that we just dont have as users. Imagine if you drew on a motorway... how wide is it, how many lanes is it, slip roads, POI, cameras? All these things cannot be collected in one pass at 90Mph and a few button presses on your unit.
If you take a step back and look at the BIG picture.... TomToms maps are cheap.... really cheap in comparison to some of the "other" sat navs. Plus they have just spent a ridiculous amount of money on TeleAtlas.... why??? My guess is so that they can improve the mapping by better integrating MapShare and speeding up the time between MapShare reports being recieved and updates being performed. And maybe... just maybe... they will start giving back those updates for free without the need for a new map purchase. Its a long shot but this is what im hoping for eventually.
I personally dont mind paying annually for my new map knowing im gonna get a year of updates as well, at the end of the day TeleAtlas cant do what they do for free and I dont think the current £30 charge is too much either.
Everybody is so quick to shout about Garmin when they are not 100% satisfied with TomTom... but where are Garmin eh??? old out of date maps from a company they dont own, they themselves admitted to me that TeleAtlas is better the day they tried to buy them... and without any map update system similar to MapShare. For me a sat nav, no matter how good, is worthless without a decent map. Im doing 45k+ miles in the car, 20k+ on the bikes and see a hell of alot of roads that my old 910 didnt know about due to a old map, but with my 720 I havnt seen the maps begun to degrade in the same way that the 910 did.
Ive seen the same issue as DennisN with roundabout and thats a perfect example of where MapShare is brill.
I personally think MapShare does EVERYTHING it says on the tin so saying TomTom are misselling it to you is nonsense, most people (especially IT savvy people) do research before buying so have no excuse for their misconceptions. Maybe is the retailers that are selling it wrongly, I can imagine its hard for 90% of the customers they see to understand, the other 10% are probably on here complaining because they didnt ask the right questions at time of purchase.
BIG UP MAPSHARE. I love you even if nobody else does. |
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RoverReg Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 19, 2007 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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thezerocool wrote: | As mikealder said... I cant help but wonder exactly how much you guys expected out of MapShare from your own visions? Thats no reason to start slagging it off now is it?
HummerUK: Im guessing the reason your slagging it off so much is becuase you have purchased a unit on your own misconceptions. The info is there if you search for it!
I personally think MapShare does EVERYTHING it says on the tin so saying TomTom are misselling it to you is nonsense, most people (especially IT savvy people) do research before buying so have no excuse for their misconceptions.
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I won't comment on MapShare until I try it, but I think that an open access update facility is good, provided that a different colour or line style is used. Then it can be used, with caution, by all knowing that maybe it's wrong.
But how many folk have followed their GPS up a narrow track, expecting a surfaced road. Using professional data????
I'm IT savvy and before retiring, ran my own personal computer business for 25 years. For 15 years I sold a service to professionals a software and data service. Updates were 2 to 3 times a year. Only once did I issue an update of data with errors and even before the first complaint came back, a replacement had already been posted by Royal Mail to all customers.
So why is it that so many errors exist in all map data? Because it makes more profit and us mugs keep paying.
As for doing research before buying, this is now very difficult. Websites are designed to sell a product. So only show good features and ignore important features. I expect those designing the pages don't even know, or ever use, the products.
I want to by another GPS device. The 920 looks a possability, but I can't find anywhere on the TomTom website, any information about an external antenna - a MUST HAVE feature. With over 11 years of using GPSrs, they are a major improver of performance that many folk don't know about.
Purchasing misconceptions occur because important information is missing. But knowing how TomTom remove features within their software, we should be more cautious!
A final point:
The original Palmtop (TomTom) software was very good, so why is a new and better version not available for use on Windows, now that most folk with a GPSr now use Windows. |
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Gnomeface Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2006 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Map Feedback Ignored |
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I've been reporting a major map error to TomTom and to TeleAtlas for 2 years - and it is still wrong on the TeleAtlas feedback maps.
The maps show two roads (one "A" and one "B") crossing the river Dart at Dartmouth in South Devon - yet neither road has ever existed as a river crossing. Both are ferry crossings with delays of 1-2 hours in the summer, and neither operates through the night, so EVERY journey in the area is affected - and if you follow the TomTom instructions you're often faced with a 25-mile detour as you view an expanse of water where there's supposed to be a main road. Google Earth shows with crystal clarity that no bridges exist, but neither TeleAtlas nor TomTom seem to be bothered enough to correct it.
Map sharing won't help with a drastic fault like this - I'd like to see more resources put into getting the basic data right. |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, isn't this one of the few times when Mapshare WILL improve the situation instantly?
Just make the phantom roads no entry in both direction and bingo!
Any chance of some co-ordinates? Then we can all report it straight away. |
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Snudge Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Peterborough
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Gnomeface wrote: | I've been reporting a major map error to TomTom and to TeleAtlas for 2 years - and it is still wrong on the TeleAtlas feedback maps.
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You have my support now Gnomeface - I've just reported it to Tele Atlas myself. If anyone else wants to do so here is the link.
The roads are A379 and B3205 crossing River Dart. |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Snudge wrote: | I've just reported it to Tele Atlas myself. If anyone else wants to do so here is the link.
The roads are A379 and B3205 crossing River Dart. |
I meant we should report it via MapShare!
I've just looked these roads up. Here they are:
You can block these using '(Un)Block road' on 'Map Corrections' on p3 of the main menu with TomTom v7 software.
Last edited by Andy_P on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Andy_P2002 wrote: |
You can block these using '(Un)Block road' on 'Map Corrections' on p3 of the main menu with TomTom v7 software. |
Don't forget to report the roads as non-existing as well, to indicate for TomTom/Tele Atlas that they shall be removed in the next map release. Only blocking them for traffic via MapShare does solve the routing problem, but might confuse the people at TomTom into thinking the roads do exist, which they apparently don't...
BTW: A check on the Western Europe 660.1256 map (supplied by NavTeq) shows that these ferry lines are shown as...ferry lines.
/Ulf |
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Snudge Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Peterborough
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Andy_P2002 wrote: |
I meant we should report it via MapShare!
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From all you've said about TomTom I get the impression you don't have a lot of confidence in them so why not report it directly to the company actually making the maps - i.e. Tele Atlas?
Surely it gets a better chance of getting fixed - cut out the middle-man? |
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uffe73 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 23, 2004 Posts: 521 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Snudge wrote: | Andy_P2002 wrote: |
I meant we should report it via MapShare!
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From all you've said about TomTom I get the impression you don't have a lot of confidence in them so why not report it directly to the company actually making the maps - i.e. Tele Atlas?
Surely it gets a better chance of getting fixed - cut out the middle-man? |
I generally do both - report to TomTom AND TeleAtlas. That's because nobody can really tell what the procedure (and delay) within TomTom is to receive and process our MapShare indata. MapShare is a feauture that allows us to modify our map and see the results straight away. Too bad that it only works with certain road properties such as road name and blocking/unblocking. Hopefully we will see some improvements in MapShare soon.
For this specific example in Dartmouth, I submitted a MapShare report asking TomTom to remove the bridges and replace them with ferry lines. A nice feature (which I recall having in Navman SmartST) was to warn for ferries when you're preplanning your route, just like they do with toll charges. This way you would get an indication that you might better take an alternative route if it's in the middle of the night.
Now I'm heading off to celebrate Christmas. I hope my satnav takes me there before santa claus arrives!
Wish all of you a Merry Christmas!
/Ulf |
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Gnomeface Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2006 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Dartmouth Ferries |
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Guys, thanks for your support on this one - maybe TeleAtlas will take note if others report the issue as well. Nice map and pics posting, Andy.
Yesterday I upgraded my TT to v7 (it was v5) and bought the latest maps, so I'll try blocking the crossings using Map Share and see what happens. I've already logged them as non-existent roads.
Thanks again. |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Snudge wrote: | Andy_P2002 wrote: |
I meant we should report it via MapShare!
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From all you've said about TomTom I get the impression you don't have a lot of confidence in them so why not report it directly to the company actually making the maps - i.e. Tele Atlas?
Surely it gets a better chance of getting fixed - cut out the middle-man? |
Have I somehow given the impression I don't trust TomTom? Can't think how that happened?!
Very good idea from uffe73 about reporting it as a missing road on Mapshare AS WELL as blocking it.
And I agree with you Snudge that we should still be reporting to TeleAtlas too - although in the days before Map share, I made LOADS of reports to Tele Atlas and I don't think any of them have been implemented.
The reason I said to do it via Mapshare blocking, was that this is one way that it will get transmitted to EVERYONE who uses it, so hopefully it will avoid a few wasted journeys. |
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Snudge Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 22, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Peterborough
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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Andy_P2002 wrote: |
The reason I said to do it via Mapshare blocking, was that this is one way that it will get transmitted to EVERYONE who uses it, so hopefully it will avoid a few wasted journeys. |
Yes good point and I see that now. Perhaps Uffe73 has got it right by reporting error to TomTom and Tele Atlas.
I'm new to the satnav world and expect to see a few mapping errors but wouldn't be very happy arriving at that ferry expecting a bridge! |
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flyguy26e Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 44 Location: Washington State, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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[quote="RoverReg"] thezerocool wrote: |
I want to by another GPS device. The 920 looks a possability, but I can't find anywhere on the TomTom website, any information about an external antenna - a MUST HAVE feature. With over 11 years of using GPSrs, they are a major improver of performance that many folk don't know about.. |
I have a new 920, and it does have an input for an external antenna. Download the user manual, if you can. It can help with stuff like that.
I think Mapshare is fairly good now, just because of the page 1 changes I can make. If corrections from others actually appear (and TT Home says it's downloading them), then that brings it up to good. And if it improves the maps I buy yearly, then that brings it up to great.
I've used TT for over three years, and about 1/3 to 1/2 the 30 or so map errors I"ve reported have been fixed, about 1/3 of them I can't check because I haven't been there again. Don't know if it was because I reported them, but I like the odds. |
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Infama Regular Visitor
Joined: Jul 19, 2007 Posts: 172 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Map Feedback Ignored |
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uffe73 wrote: | Andy_P2002 wrote: |
You can block these using '(Un)Block road' on 'Map Corrections' on p3 of the main menu with TomTom v7 software. |
Don't forget to report the roads as non-existing as well, to indicate for TomTom/Tele Atlas that they shall be removed in the next map release. Only blocking them for traffic via MapShare does solve the routing problem, but might confuse the people at TomTom into thinking the roads do exist, which they apparently don't...
BTW: A check on the Western Europe 660.1256 map (supplied by NavTeq) shows that these ferry lines are shown as...ferry lines.
/Ulf |
This is a Tele-Atlas map. It was the supplied map for my 910. The rider map was Navteq. |
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