Home PageFacebookRSS News Feed
PocketGPS
Web
SatNav,GPS,Navigation
Pocket GPS World - SatNavs | GPS | Speed Cameras: Forums

Pocket GPS World :: View topic - M6 Toll Road - TomTom Official Response
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in for private messagesLog in for private messages   Log inLog in 

M6 Toll Road - TomTom Official Response
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> TomTom Software-Only Products
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SpeedCam
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 753
Location: Biggleswade, BEDS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: M6 Toll Road - TomTom Official Response Reply with quote

Twisted Evil I logged a support request relating to the missing M6 Toll data, their response:

Dear xxxx,

The map data is from October 2003 and will not be updated in the near future

With best regards,

The TomTom Customer Support Team
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dmac
Regular Visitor


Joined: 18/08/2003 22:18:21
Posts: 117
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats with the hangups over the toll road its just a bypass Smile
Its not as it is has a postal add or destination.
Given choice of bypass or feeder road to several estates give me
the latter every time.
We dont know how TT are charged for geo data is it per mile or
per road link (would be interesting to know just how many road
junction there are in UK)
Geodata aint cheap in UK likewise if may be unrealistic to expect
total up to date coverage.
As long as it is improving that will do me Smile

Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SpeedCam
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 753
Location: Biggleswade, BEDS

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue is not with the M6 toll, but as you said the feeder & connecting roads, they have all changed and incorrect many no longer exist. Like you these are more important than the M6 Toll iself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NMatthew
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac wrote:
Whats with the hangups over the toll road its just a bypass Smile

I hope you don't ever need to come within 50 miles of Birmingham!

The M6 Toll has a wider impact than many bypasses that simply improve through routes around towns. Usually TTN will route you through the town concerned and you win by using the bypass when you get there. But, the M6 Toll makes viable new routes that TTN would previously not consider (like using the M42 northbound from M6 J4). Many routes in and around the West Midlands will have their route calculations in TTN3 affected by the presence of the new road as junctions and feeder roads have changed.

How do you suppose Tomtom's new live traffic re-route will work around the M6 (busiest road in Europe) if it doesn't know about the new road? Sure, if you live locally you may be very familiar with every nuance. Sure, you could use a paper atlas. I didn't spend £500 to use a paper atlas.

Some of us are disappointed at Tomtom's response, which is at odds with their statement at Cebit (which was that they might update, as reported on this forum). The October 2003 date for the data means that roads opened April-August 2003 or later may not be present, and that's quite a few changes due to a peak in roadbuilding recently. We have to wait until TTN4, and pay another €49 before we get roads that by then will have been opened two years. I'm looking at Alturion as an alternative as they claim to offer regular map updates between releases. Sadly, I have yet to have a response from them on the M6 Toll.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darren
Frequent Visitor


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't wish to act as TomTom's defender but I feel the point should be re-iterated. TomTom are not repsonsible for the map data, TeleAtlas are. Any application that uses TeleAtlas data will have exactly the same issues with map data and similar issues are suffered by users of the other major player Navteq's data.

I think TomTom have yet to realise that they suffer heavily when Geodata providers fail to provide this data, they faile to recognise that the majority of consumers see no differentition between TeleAtlas and TomTom.

There are three issues here:

1. Geodata providers need to prioritise, whereas a cul-de-sac in an estate may not need to be fast tracked, a major road build such as the M6 toll or other important By-Passes should be available to customers such as TomTom as soon as possible after opening. It is crazy that they insist on physically driving the road before collating the data when plans for major schemes like this will have been available for months or even years prior. Having done so it still takes a minimum 6months before this data is available to authors.

2. Navteq and TeleAtlas operate as monopolies, they charge huge sums for the map data and don't see that they have to listen to or react to requests from customers. The only choice companies have is to switch when things go sour (Navman is a case in point), it is to be hoped that as the GPS market is exploding this will change and companies such as TomTom and Navman will have major clout.

3. Application authors need to be more open, if they can't react to map data issues because the data provider is intransigent then they should say so though I suspect they are heavily constrained from laying blame at the moment. If the likes of TomTom and Navman don't realise that they will get the blame for the failures of TeleAtlas then they need to wake up and fast!
_________________
Darren Griffin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
NMatthew
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much agree with all that you say, although clearly it is Tomtom's product and they will have chosen to use the map data in a certain way - it's the lack of updates that is galling, since we know TeleAtlas do in fact have later data, not just annual releases.

The fact that TeleAtlas drag their feet on new roads is bad news, especially as that's their business! It's what they do for a living. Their raison d'etre. (See the pattern here?) Even if they insist on driving the route, do it on opening day. What we need is a "data war" with Navtech and TeleAtlas competing to outdo each other with quality of maps to attract the software vendors! As you say, a bigger market means more revenue for them to shoot for so maybe things'll improve (one day).

Do we know if Navtech/TeleAtlas/TomTom read these forums? I'd be surprised if there were NO employees of theirs reading this. So, people, do your stuff.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark R Penn
Regular Visitor


Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17
Posts: 176
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't wish to act as TomTom's defender but I feel the point should be re-iterated. TomTom are not repsonsible for the map data


I agree that it's Teleatlas' fault, but it is TomTom's responsibility. They sell the data to the consumer. They make claims for it. They fail to communicate. Bottom line is they are the ones I have a contract with, and so they are the ones I will blame when they don't deliver what they promise.

Now, you could say that they don't promise that every road built up to October 2003 is included, and you'd be right. But neither do they make it clear what "data as of October 2003" means in reality, IMHO deliberately as what "ordinary punter" would buy a GPS system if they believed it was 1 to 2 years out of date? Especially when the competition is the RAC atlas at £2.99, which DOES have the M6 Toll.

The fact is that ever since TomTom took our money on the promise (and it was a very specific promise at the time) of UK postcode support, I simply don't trust them, and so they do NOT get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dmac
Regular Visitor


Joined: 18/08/2003 22:18:21
Posts: 117
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[

Quote:
I agree that it's Teleatlas' fault, but it is TomTom's responsibility. They sell the data to the consumer. They make claims for it. They fail to communicate. Bottom line is they are the ones I have a contract with, and so they are the ones I will blame when they don't deliver what they promise.


What you ask for is impossible, TT are a software co and it is
unreasonable for them to check data they are supplied with.
Bear in mind they would have to check complete coverage of
Europe and USA.

Quote:
Now, you could say that they don't promise that every road built up to October 2003 is included, and you'd be right. But neither do they make it clear what "data as of October 2003" means in reality, IMHO deliberately as what "ordinary punter" would buy a GPS system if they believed it was 1 to 2 years out of date? Especially when the competition is the RAC atlas at £2.99, which DOES have the M6 Toll.


Takes short time to draw in road alignment on paper.
With digital data its like putting needle in haystack and then ensuring
you can find it again

cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark R Penn
Regular Visitor


Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17
Posts: 176
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac wrote:
What you ask for is impossible, TT are a software co and it is unreasonable for them to check data they are supplied with.
Bear in mind they would have to check complete coverage of
Europe and USA.


No, I'm not asking them to check the data. No-one can tell me they don't know that "data as of October 2003" is, in the real world, missing important roads that are up to 2 years out of date, yet they choose (note "choose", not "are forced") not to make it clear what their statement means.

Quote:
Takes short time to draw in road alignment on paper.
With digital data its like putting needle in haystack and then ensuring
you can find it again


You missed the point. I can accept WHY the M6 Toll etc are not there. What I can't accept is TomTom missleading people about how up to date the data they sell is.

They don't have to say "Note that our maps are not as up to date as the ones you can buy in WH Smiths" - that would be unreasonable to ask. But they could put a statement in faq or on the "map coverage" page explaining how electronic data is collected, and what their policy is regarding the level of detail they choose to buy, and how they update people.

It's pretty simple - the average "man in the street", buying TotmTom N3 today, will expect the latest major (and even recent minor) roads to be there, and TomTom quite deliberately take advantage of those expectations, even though they know full well they can't meet them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gracar
Regular Visitor


Joined: 03/10/2002 20:48:29
Posts: 72
Location: Leicestershire UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that every person who has posted on this forum seems to know exactly where the M6 toll, and all of the feeder roads are, I'm surprised it's an issue! I'm more worried about being able to go to places where I have no idea of the location and in that respect the current crop of software seems to favour one supplier of mapping - so there're pretty much all the same...take it or leave it.

Personally I'm happy with what's on offer, I get guided me from A to B pretty efficiently, and that's not something you'll read on these forums very often!!
_________________
Graham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark R Penn
Regular Visitor


Joined: 10/09/2002 17:13:17
Posts: 176
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Likewise, but that doesn't excuse TomTom from being honest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dave
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 6460
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure if someone knows at either TeleAtlas or TomTom, they could release a list of roads that aren't in the current map data, or roads that haven't been updated. Anyone want to read a list of perhaps 500,000 roads ? I don't think I would.

I think people we need to bring this back into perspective a little. Data collection takes an immense amount of time and so does surveying. Never expect any new roads in a product for atleast a year.

Most GPS companies have THE LATEST data set from NAVTEQ, TeleAtlas and Ordnance Survey. If they don't then I agree they should stipulate it, most map updates are quarterly with NAVTEQ's being 6 monthly.

You also have the vote to choose with your feet. If you don't want to go with a product because there's no M6 toll road in it, then DON'T!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
alix776
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
Posts: 3999
Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok call me daft but why not use remote dataloging (if it exists) this is how i could see it work ( this may be me dreaming)
what if you used comercial vehicles from large fleets say steady eddie or james irlams for major road changes and home delivery fleets say dfs,post office businesspost etc for local streets
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
dmac
Regular Visitor


Joined: 18/08/2003 22:18:21
Posts: 117
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alix776 wrote:
ok call me daft but why not use remote dataloging (if it exists) this is how i could see it work ( this may be me dreaming)
what if you used comercial vehicles from large fleets say steady eddie or james irlams for major road changes and home delivery fleets say dfs,post office businesspost etc for local streets


Because you still need ground visit to check priorities at road junctions
and you have to ensure slip roads etc are included.
Road alignment is only a small part of the process.

cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alix776
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
Posts: 3999
Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not knowing much about it i was only guessing how it works only an idea
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger







Posted: Today    Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Pocket GPS World Forum Index -> TomTom Software-Only Products All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Make a Donation



CamerAlert Database

Click here for the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database

Download Speed Camera Database
22.105 (30 Oct 24)



WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!

Click here to submit camera positions to the PocketGPSWorld.com Speed Camera Database


12mth Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now


CamerAlert Apps



iOS QR Code






Android QR Code







© Terms & Privacy


GPS Shopping