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Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject:
But TomTom have come clean and admitted their unit is not performing correctly in the UK, and have already said they will be making a new design available later in the year.
What more are you trying to get TomTom to do by reporting them to Watchdog...?
Now, a more general complaint about the low radio signals being used by both TMC services' radio stations I would support - by allowing the radio stations to broadcast a stronger signal it would fix the problems for both services...
Of course, this would cause more interference on the actual radio stations (ie the normal music broadcasts)...
What would be a good solution (but it'll never happen) is allowing both service companies a free unique frequency range for them to use themselves as they see fit, with much higher signal strengths.... _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject:
Another suggestion is allowing the BBC network to transmit the RDS-TMC say 50/50 split between iTIS and TrafficMaster allocated Radio 1, 2, 3 and 4 equally between them - I doubt this will ever happen though to be honest.
Shame really as any of the BBC radio stations have very good coverage throughout the UK, with considerable power outputs from their transmitters - Mike
Actually, my gripe is with Garmin, who have admitted that in some areas, transmission by Trafficmaster has ceased, but they are a) still advertising full coverage in areas where they know there is no transmission, and b)on the back of that advertising, still selling product and subscriptions.
Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject:
rickwiggans wrote:
Actually, my gripe is with Garmin, who have admitted that in some areas, transmission by Trafficmaster has ceased
They should have said "in some areas, transmission of the Trafficmaster information by the radio station has broken" - admittedly there is no known ETA for the fix though.
Quite what's broken, and why it's taking so long to get fixed, is a secret known only to people who aren't telling. _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject:
As far as Watchdog is concerned, the problem appears to lie with the TMC providers - iTIS and TrafficMaster - not the GPS manufacturers because ALL GPS products seem to be beset by the same problems regarding poor reception.
Good idea Mike, BBC radio stations should have reasonably consistent national coverage.
How exactly does the RDS signal 'work'?
In my car, I can be listening to a CD/cassette and this can be interrupted by a traffic bulletin....so obviously some kind of additional signal transmitted.
However, in my experience, such interruptions have always been local radio station traffic bulletins and I haven't seen a BBC bulletin do this.
Obviously, BBC radio stations transmit an RDS signal because the station name is displayed.
What is it in the RDS signal that:
a) triggers the car radio to switch modes?
b) transmits the TMC signal at such a low strength compared with other EU countries? _________________ Andy
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Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject:
GPS_fan wrote:
What is it in the RDS signal that:
a) triggers the car radio to switch modes?
The RDS data signal includes information such as the EON information - "Enhanced Other Network" information - this includes the frequencies of the neighbouring radio stations. If your radio has a second FM tuner it uses that unit to scan these other frequencies to see if any of them have turned on the RDS "I'm broadcasting a traffic bulletin" flag. If so, the main radio is switched to this radio station.
Obviously, the commercial radio stations only list other commercial radio stations, whereas the 4 BBC national radio stations list other BBC local radio stations. I'm not sure what the BBC local radio stations broadcast (ie whether they list the national radio stations or just neighbouring local stations).
If a CD/tape is interrupted by only a single radio station, then your radio may only have a single tuner, but even that is being used to scan for the traffic bulletin signal on the selected (but not being played) radio station.
Historically, different radio stations took different amounts of time to upgrade their kit to support all the functions available within the RDS data stream, and even now many of them don't use all the features available.
Quote:
b) transmits the TMC signal at such a low strength compared with other EU countries?
The whole radio signal - voice (ie music) and data (RDS), is being broadcast at a lower level, mainly due to interference (possibly because of allowing too many radio stations to be too close to each other in the first place) - by increasing the strength there is a greater risk of interference from the further away radio transmitters. _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject:
mikealder wrote:
Another suggestion is allowing the BBC network to transmit the RDS-TMC
I do wonder, with their own experimental traffic data service, whether they aren't allowed to carry the commercial TMC services, or whether they've decided not to in order to not compete with their own service.
Either way, I can't see it ever happening either, although I agree it might well help - give iTIS Radio 1 and TM Radio 2, and that's pretty much the whole country covered for both services. _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
Actually, my gripe is with Garmin, who have admitted that in some areas, transmission by Trafficmaster has ceased
They should have said "in some areas, transmission of the Trafficmaster information by the radio station has broken" - admittedly there is no known ETA for the fix though.
Quite what's broken, and why it's taking so long to get fixed, is a secret known only to people who aren't telling.
Ceased or broken, the effect on customers is the same. Winter Hill has been "broken" for 6 months now, which shows a lack of will to fix it. Meantime, Garmin are selling units and subscriptions, out of which, presumably they and Trafficmaster are making money. How about them going widely public, and suggesting people don't buy their product till they can announce a fix? Unlikely I would suggest.
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:56 am Post subject:
For those units which use TrafficMaster, it's a pity TrafficMaster can't incorporate their roadside transmitters into the equation.
For over 10 years, the TrafficMaster Freeway has gathered its traffic information from these transmitters and, although low powered, the transmitters are in an ideal location for passing motorists.
Alternatively, I would have thought that the vast majority of radio stations transmit below 105 or 106MHz, so why not allocate a higher frequency (106-107MHz) to iTIS and TrafficMaster so that they don't interfere with other stations over wider areas and they could 'rent' space on other peoples' transmitters to broadcast their own data.
rickwiggans wrote:
Winter Hill has been "broken" for 6 months now
As far as I can see (but I may well be wrong), the radio stations transmitting fromWinter Hill are not part of the group of stations transmitting TrafficMaster data.
Furthermore, the 6 months you quote, ties in very well with a change of ownership of one stattion (Century) away from a group transmitting TrafficMaster:
"Capital Radio bought the Century network, and was subsequently acquired by GCap Media. GMG Radio acquired the Century stations in October 2006" - source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_105
GCap Media transmit TrafficMaster, but I have no idea about GMG.
edited to correct URL _________________ Andy
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Last edited by GPS_fan on Sat May 12, 2007 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:16 am Post subject:
The Winter Hill transmitter did indeed work up to around the end of the year, then data ceased - the frequency was 105,4 which is Century FM - the radio station is still working just the RDS-TMC data from TrafficMaster is no longer carried.
Strange that some people have had answers to letters acknowledging there is a problem with Winter Hill, but no date to fix it - without the Winter Hill transmitter the North West is effectively blind as far as Traffic Master data is concerned.
The Garmin devices simply don’t work on the motorway network from North of Lancaster to around the Manchester ship canal bridge (M56 junction), this quite a long stretch of heavily congested motorway - Mike
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:25 am Post subject:
Mike,
could the change of ownership (GCap to GMG) explain the end of TrafficMaster transmissions if the radio station is no longer a member of the group contracted to carry these signals?
What is the iTIS coverage like around that area? _________________ Andy
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:50 am Post subject:
The change of ownership could well explain the end of data transmission, I would like a more deffinitive statement from TM though on this subject (will write to them later).
GPS_fan wrote:
What is the iTIS coverage like around that area?
It depends which RDS-TMC receiver I am using, both TomTom and Navman use iTIS data.
The TomTom receiver problems are well documented throughout the forum - its fair to say that as supplied the TT receiver doesn't work around the North West, modification to connect an external aerial is possible but not too easy and voids the warranty, that said it does improve reception. TomTom are currently working on the problem so hopefully there will be a new working receiver from them at some point in the near future.
The Navman T1 RDS-TMC receiver is somewhat a surprise, firstly it works in the North West (remember this is receiving iTIS data from Classic FM the same as the TomTom system does). It works very well without an external aerial connected, that said it is well designed and has a connector available should you want to feed the receiver with an external aerial. Connection of an external aerial does improve reception when in marginal area's, in my experience if it works around my home town it will work practically anywhere else, Blackpool is very poorly serviced by Classic FM coverage. iTIS data is only transmitted using Classic FM radio stations.
The only downside to all these extra aerials on the car is the appearance, and I can no longer take the vehicle into a multi-story car park - too costly in terms of aerial damage! - That said two of the aerials are mag-mount types, so I can use these on hire cars as well when required. - Mike
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:10 am Post subject:
mikealder wrote:
The change of ownership could well explain the end of data transmission, I would like a more deffinitive statement from TM though on this subject (will write to them later).
The best of British to you - I've written to both TrafficMaster and iTIS on a couple of occasions and their replies must have 'got lost in the post' because I certainly haven't received anything.
Useful information is as common as rocking horse dung and the whole TMC thing is a mess as far as the consumer/end user is concerned. _________________ Andy
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