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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: Nuvi routing
Hi,
I am considering getting a Nuvi to replace my current PDA setup based on M|N5 which has served me well but needs an upgrade, and to allow my wife the option of using it (as her new job involves more travelling).
However, I am concerned by the (admittedly small) number of postings regarding inappropriate routing.
I have seen the "unpaved roads" checkbox being mentioned and intend to set that at the earliest opportunity (if I buy one).
However, I am concerned that this may not be the only reason for the curious routes being generated.
I understand that the route proposed by the Nuvi (or any satnav) is just a suggestion and should be followed at the drivers discretion, but when you are travelling to somewhere you have never visited before the last thing you need is to have to worry about whether the satnav is right or not, and have to check it against a paper map. Might as well just use the paper map; you can buy a lot of paper for the price of a Nuvi!
If you can't rely on the directions given does that reduce the satnav to the same category as fluffy dice or a nodding dog; another ornament on the dasdboardjavascript:emoticon('')
Wink?
Don't misunderstand me here; I am not knocking the technology (I have used it for a number of years and will continue to do so in the future), I just want to understand where the line is drawn between the acceptable and unacceptable in terms of routing reliability, and whether the Nuvi is better or worse in this respect than the opposition.javascript:emoticon('')
Confused
Just putting on the Nomex suit ready for the replies javascript:emoticon('')
Laughing
I understand that the route proposed by the Nuvi (or any satnav) is just a suggestion and should be followed at the drivers discretion, but when you are travelling to somewhere you have never visited before the last thing you need is to have to worry about whether the satnav is right or not, and have to check it against a paper map. Might as well just use the paper map; you can buy a lot of paper for the price of a Nuvi!
Although a Sat Nav is expensive compared to a map and you could debate whether it is economic if you can’t rely on it 100%, I regard is as no more than a tool.
When I first bought the S/Nav I threw away the maps, but then found that when in unknown territory relying on it was almost like driving blind and if it sent me around in circles or took me for a long route, I was none the wiser.
I now look at a paper map to give me an idea as to where I’m going and digest the basics i.e. motorway junction etc and use the Nuvi for the finer points at the other end.
I mainly purchased the S/Nav to find houses when on appointment’s in the dark of night, it is surprising the amount of people who number their house where you can’t read it, or number the house 100 yards down a tree lined drive.
There have been posts on this site where S/Nav users have blamed there units for punctures etc when sent down an unmade road, but I feel that that is plain daft, just because the car is directed towards a cliff are you going to follow it and drive off it.
The most common is drivers of lorries stuck in narrow lanes, or cars trying to “sail” across streams and rivers, it the driver involved is that stupid to follow the S/Nav advice when it is obvious that the situation isn’t “normal” and not use their own common sense, then the S/Nav should be taken away from them as they are a danger to us all.
Like you I can only instruct the S/Nav to avoid "unpaved roads" but as we have all found out that isn’t always guaranteed, the rest is just common sense, additionally the S/Nav won’t always take the best (or shortest) route, I feel on a long or complicated journey paper maps are also required.
Hopefully in the near future the map writers will add many improvements, but today (2007) this is the best you’re going to get.
I feel the Nuvi is the best, but everybody else will argue for there own, we have all got different view points as to what we expect from our S/Nav.
Others will probably add a lot more on the subject but, I still wouldn’t give up the Nuvi and feel it’s the best thing since “sliced bread” but only if used sensibly. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
I'm not gonna write a long reply as above but i agree totally, i have a nuvi 310, but i was cautious i guess when i first used it and took maps to site with me, i then got confident and left them at the office or in the file BUT i still look on google maps or streetmap at the surrounding area and kinda plan my route before i leave. Luckily most of my routes involve the main motorways so i just need to remember the junction etc.
The sat nav is always on though, i like to see how long it is until i get here etc., but its mainly used for cities/areas i'm unsure of and for when i get lost.
i dont mind some of the routes it gives me but i'm wary of driving down single track rounds even though i look on the map and i can get out the other end
Sometimes it will tell me to turn off but i continue on the motorway to the junction i saw on the map, this can sometimes actually be quicker as you havent got to battle through local traffic
i guess it can be 'hit and miss' ' swings and roundabouts' which is the best route the sat nav picks
I've used Navigon for a year, followed by TomTom for another year. No really serious problems at all, and certainly never needed to look at other maps to give me any confidence.
Since getting the Garmin, I've been sent up tracks, paths and unmade roads several times, and I've only used it a week.
Its not good enough to say you should know where its taking you - I drive all over the country for work and often don't know where I am - Nuvi often leads you into nasty situations you can't get out of easily.
Thanks for the responses.
Although GJF and djben9 present cogent arguments for the use of technology as an adjunct to paper maps rather than a total replacement, I think I am more with RichK on this.
The primary benefit IMHO of satnav technology is to reduce the stress of driving to a destination in an area where I have not previously travelled. What I do not want to have to do is to memorise a section of a paper map so that I can decide if the satnav is "wrong" and reroute as I see fit. I could just memorise the map and buy some Valium.javascript:emoticon('')
Laughing
I have been using satnav for a number of years, SmartST, TomTom, and Navigon, and I have been let down once, when I was directed up a mountain track in Eastern France (although when I got to my destination, the road was only marginally better than the mountain track!).
So until I see more posts showing Garmin routing to be less contentious, and despite the fact that it has all the other functions I would appreciate (MP3 player, FM Transmitter, Bluetooth handsfree etc.) and it looks good, my money has to go elsewhere.
So until I see more posts showing Garmin routing to be less contentious my money has to go elsewhere.
I can only say my experience is different. My Nuvi 300 rarely wants to take me down minor roads and almost the only times that it does is after a deviation from its planned route; I have no idea why my experience is different to others.
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2003 Location: Antrobus, Cheshire
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:07 am Post subject:
alistairm1 wrote:
Thanks for the responses.
Although GJF and djben9 present cogent arguments for the use of technology as an adjunct to paper maps rather than a total replacement, I think I am more with RichK on this.
The primary benefit IMHO of satnav technology is to reduce the stress of driving to a destination in an area where I have not previously travelled. What I do not want to have to do is to memorise a section of a paper map so that I can decide if the satnav is "wrong" and reroute as I see fit.
But they are not being sold as map replacements. You can't see enough of a long journey at the same time on them to know if the route is sensible or not.
In any event if you don't look at a map then you wouldn't know if it had picked the wrong route
I have had TomTom (V6.03 with 660 MOWE was latest) and now a nuvi 660. The 660 is much more reliable in navigating - especially country lanes. I live in the 'sticks' and all my journeys require me to start in narrow country lanes. TomTom would always (right back from the very early days) try to route down a 'green road' that is unsurfaced and you can just about negotiate on foot - even the farmers with tractors avoid it.
The nuvi has never tried to route me down this (as long as the avoid unpaved roads) is selected. It acknowledges the road is there as it reminds me to turn left, as it appears to be a T junction. The nuvi will route you down an unsurfaced road if your destination is on that road of course.
It does a very good job of routing my normal journey into work when set to shortest distance. It avoids routing immediately onto the local main roads (A49 or A50) and only gets it wrong 'cause I choose not to go down a road that has a lot of speed bumps - but that is my choice - the route it shows is much shorter.
All in all very pleased with the nuvi - very nice piece of kit that looks good and works well. Yes - it could do with some refinements and additions - but nothing will meet everyone's needs. _________________ Phil
Joined: Nov 04, 2003 Posts: 2225 Location: Bedfordshire, UK
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject:
tynecomp wrote:
I can only say my experience is different.
Mine too. Also - before you condemn Garmin, you really need to read through the TomTom forums for the odd similar comment in there, plus every other SatNav unit's forum here....
None are perfect (and when it's the map data at fault, it will obviously affect 50-100% of all SatNav units), but the problems are normally very specific routes, or locations.
At no point has anyone said "my Garmin did not get me to the destination I selected" - only "it didn't go the way I expected / would have preferred / it went down legitimate narrow country lanes which I wasn't expecting" - the unit isn't "wrong" per se, it's just not as right as it could be in 0.01% of cases.
Yes, I've been down some country lanes (in nearly every case I have known this from the first turning off the main road, and decided to accept it, instead of continuing on the main road and letting the unit choose a more major route for me), yes, I've had to reverse back, but then a few years back some of my regular routes (including one to work) involved lanes like this every day... _________________ Please don't be offended if I do not reply to a PM - please ask questions via the forums.
I understand that no piece of technology is perfect, I have worked in IT for over 30 years. javascript:emoticon('')
Laughing
I have read the TomTom forums, and rejected that companies products because of the posts I have read (and having handled a couple of units they don't inspire me to open my wallet).
I can accept a bit of curious routing; on the A5 to Wales there is a sharp left-hand turn, SmartSt used to try to route me down a singe-track road to cut the corner which would save about 50 yards. The junction of the A331 at Farnborough Gate is another point where Navigon wants me to leave the major road, traverse a roundabout and then rejoin the major road.
Subtle differences in routing are to be expected. What I find hard to accept are the reports in this and other forums (or should that be fora) the the same suppliers maps produce radically different routes depending on which software does the calculations.
I am grateful that people are taking the time and trouble to respond to this, and I will be HUGELY disappointed if I finally decide to NOT get a Nuvi as in all ways but one it fits my requirements. Unfortunately that requirement is the prime reason for buying a satnav in the first place!!
You should possibly take my annoyed posting with a pinch of salt - my failure to get traffic reports working have kind of put me off the unit as a whole.
The biggest thing for me, after a long cold think about it, is that you have very little influence over its routing. With TomTom, you can review its planned route before you set off and use your brain to tell it if you don't like any of the route.
With Garmin, its a mystery tour, you have no way of knowing where you're going, whether its a sensible route or not, and no way of telling it to go elsewhere.
All I can say is after two weeks, mine's going up on ebay and I'm going back to a PDA based TomTom system. Far, far from perfect but at least I have confidence in it.
my failure to get traffic reports working have kind of put me off the unit as a whole.
Again this isn't down to the Garmin, you can read this problem under all Sat Nav's with TMC.
TMC has been shoved on us (at extra cost) whilst still in the learning stages, we all expected it's full use as we had bought it, but seem to be guinea pigs for the producers, at our own expense. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
I think it would be fair to say here that the NavTech data that Garmin licenses is far & away more reliable than the data TomTom license (TeleAtlas). Although there are areas where the NavTech data just sucks. e.g. The TeleAtlas data has the new roading around T5 @ heathrow, but the NavTech data is missing that AND the Jubilee river (6+ years old).
However... TomTom seem to have a MUCH better routing algorithm. Mostly... And certainly the routing of the TT is far & away better than the features provided by Garmin in the Nuvi (I'm beginning to wonder exactly what market Garmin are trying to target with the Nuvi).
For example in the TT you get features that the Garmin doesn't provide such as
1. Ability to avoid parts of a route.
2. Ability to set a route with multiple stops on it (Like other Garmins let you, except the Nuvi for some reason).
3. A decent on-screen routing display. Including time to destination, distance to destination, Current time, Time of arrival. And wonderful details graphics at the turns.
4. TT Traffic display is much better. Showing on the RHS of the display, traffic status, where on the journey traffic delays are.
5. Routing by address is far better.
6. Postcodes are accurate to the road. Whereas Garmin seem to pick the 'nearest' road to a point... That annoyed me this morning, no end (BS5 9LA is NOT Albert street. It's Church Road, at least according to all the addresses I have).
7. A QWERTY keyboard on screen! Whoever thinks there isn't enough room on a widescreen Garmin for a proper qwerty keyboard should get their hands out of their trousers & do some real work that they're suited for. Shovelling s*&t springs to mind.
8. A decent professional support portal with tracking of support calls etc.
Garmin on the other hand provide...
1. A proper zoom function.
2.... Umm... Sorry... Can't think of anything else... Hold on... Traffic data from TMC rather than that crap from ISTIS. Oh... if you can get it... Which you can't on motorways or anywhere further than 2-300 metres from a (LARGE!) city centre.
I'm very disappointed with the Garmin Nuvi 660 unit... I actually wish I'd taken it back now... BUt sadly I tried to get garmin to fix the problems instead. Big mistake. They don't really seem interested in doing anything to make it better. And keep stripping out functionality instead of enhancing it (e.g. onscreen map display of traffic. And a decent list of traffic. When I'm driving I don't have time to around with their useless bloody interface).
Blimey Hamie, I take it you have gone off the Nuvi a bit! _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Joined: Dec 17, 2006 Posts: 302 Location: Ellesmere UK
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject:
I persuaded Garmin to issue an RMA which Halfords honoured after I'd had a C510D for six months. Like Hamie I tried to get them to sort it out. But my only beef was the traffic (GTM21) which seldom worked - surprise surprise. I never had any issues with the routing apart from one oddity in FRance when I was taken down a single track road with an N road just a km or two away.
my failure to get traffic reports working have kind of put me off the unit as a whole.
Again this isn't down to the Garmin, you can read this problem under all Sat Nav's with TMC.
TMC has been shoved on us (at extra cost) whilst still in the learning stages, we all expected it's full use as we had bought it, but seem to be guinea pigs for the producers, at our own expense.
Yeah, I know - believe me, I've read ALL of the threads in detail
I know its not the Nuvi's fault, that's what I'm saying - you should temper my complaining with the knowledge that I'm in a tantrum about something unrelated.
By the way, just discovered today that you CAN find the detail of the planned route on the nuvi - I really should RTFM (just press the name of the road at the top of the display and a full list comes up). Makes it better but I think Hamie's post just about sums it up.
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around with their useless bloody interface).
