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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Specs cameras
Not sure if this is the correct place to ask this, so can a mod move it if its wrong, thx
Do the specs cameras actually work? has anyone been done by them?
The reason I ask is I find it hard to believe that 2 cameras can cover 3 lanes of constant traffic moving at 50mph and record there number plates.
I know number recognition has moved on in recent years, but with so many variables, how is it possible?
Fog,Rain,Dirty plates, Snow, Darkness, all this and reading more than one plate a second.
Or is it just a good scam to slow traffic, cause it works either way!
Also Redlight cameras, I'm VERY cautious of these.
At what point do they trigger?
If you cross the 'line' just as they turn amber, is that ok?
Thanks _________________ Garmin Emap, Ipaq 2210 with TomTom Navigator 5, TomTom One, Pioneer AVIC-X1R, TomTom 910 (stolen). TomTom 520, TomTom 6100 (Faulty, replaced under warranty), Currently got a TomTom 6200
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Specs cameras
m623d wrote:
Do the specs cameras actually work? has anyone been done by them?
Yes, I personally know people who have been booked by SPECS. Also read the news stories, the SPECS on Upper Thames street have a large number of satisfied customers.
m623d wrote:
I find it hard to believe that 2 cameras can cover 3 lanes of constant traffic moving at 50mph and record there number plates. Fog,Rain,Dirty plates, Snow, Darkness, all this and reading more than one plate a second.
Bear in mind that these are not your average consumer grade camera. There is a LOT of money to be made in this business and they use top quality quality lenses and high resolution cameras. There are also infra-red illuminators so they can "see" in the dark.
m623d wrote:
Also Redlight cameras, I'm VERY cautious of these.
At what point do they trigger? If you cross the 'line' just as they turn amber, is that ok?
I don't know anyone who has been booked by one of these (at least, no one that will admit it!). I don't know how many of these are live, but there are certainly a number of them which don't work anymore (I see cars run the red light all the time and not get flashed).
The old Gatso red light cameras record the time that the light was red when you crossed the line and they also make a vague measure of your speed. If you drive though them slowly then they won't trigger.
The new combined red light and speed camera (redspeed or monitron) are digital - don't mess with these or you will risk double points and double prizes for the Scamera partnership. _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Specs cameras
Skippy wrote:
Bear in mind that these are not your average consumer grade camera. There is a LOT of money to be made in this business and they use top quality quality lenses and high resolution cameras. There are also infra-red illuminators so they can "see" in the dark.
That said, I'm sure that a certain percentage of vehicles don't get prosecuted - non standard numberplates, dirty plates, plates on the dash rather than the car, tailgating, changed lanes etc. Exactly what that percentage is will surely be a closely guarded secret. _________________ Gone fishing!
Surely if the cameras are so advanced they can see and record number plates at more than 1 a second then how hard can it be to compare those numbers at the next camera, regardless of lane?
I'm not convinced they work, maybe they can pick out numbers intermittently, ie in perfect conditions and not every vehicle, but I think they are a very good deterent.
I cant see how they can view 3 lanes of close together traffic travelling at 50mph at every camera.
Having said that, I wont risk testing them!
Lets face it, they could introduce a tupperware box, paint it yellow and place it near the side of the road, then say it is a new kind of speed cam, and it would slow people down, because who would risk it! _________________ Garmin Emap, Ipaq 2210 with TomTom Navigator 5, TomTom One, Pioneer AVIC-X1R, TomTom 910 (stolen). TomTom 520, TomTom 6100 (Faulty, replaced under warranty), Currently got a TomTom 6200
Joined: Jan 10, 2004 Posts: 2777 Location: Bonnie Scotland (West Central)
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject:
m623d wrote:
I cant see how they can view 3 lanes of close together traffic travelling at 50mph at every camera.
Each camera monitors one lane, which is why they are usually mounted in pairs or triples.
m623d wrote:
Surely if the cameras are so advanced they can see and record number plates at more than 1 a second then how hard can it be to compare those numbers at the next camera, regardless of lane?
I'm going from memory and from other posts on the forum, so bear with me: Each type has to be government approved. When approval for Specs was applied for, the wording was such that the approval is only for one lane of traffic. IF that is the case, I'm sure that the approval will be modified. _________________ Jock
TomTom Go 940 LIVE (9.510, Europe v915.5074 on SD & 8.371, WCE v875.3613 on board)
SPECS average speed camera systems utilise state of the art video system with Automatic Number Plate Reading (ANPR) digital technology. Consisting of a minimum of two cameras each fitted with infra red illuminators fitted on gantries above the road, so they can work day or night. SPECS speed cameras work out the vehicles average speed, given the time it takes to drive between the two camera positions.
SPECS average speed cameras are fitted either at the roadside or in the central reservation a set distance apart to create a speed controlled zone, or where appropriate, groups of cameras can be linked to create a speed controlled network.
As vehicles pass between the entry and exit camera points their number plates are digitally recorded, whether speeding or not. Then, by ANPR recognition, the images on the video of matching number plates are paired up, and because each image carries a date and time stamp, the computer can then work out your average speed between the cameras. There is no film used for SPECS.
SPECS are commonly used to enforce speed limits on dual carriageways and motorways. This is because one SPECS gantry can monitor up to four lanes of traffic at any one time
Quote from the manufactures of SPECS system. "The SPECS system is so efficient and user friendly that Manchester CTO processed 2,500 offences in 6 man-hours". :o
Points and Penalties
Being prosecuted in the UK by a SPECS speed/safety camera system can result in a minimum of 3 penalty points and a £60 fine. This fine amount is currently under review by the government and may increase in near future.
RED LIGHT CAMS
Traffic light cameras are triggered either by using ground loops that are cut into road surface or radar technology. When using loops, as the traffic lights turn red the system becomes active, any vehicle passing over the sensor in the road after this time is then photographed. Radar based traffic light cameras work in the same manner as fixed Gatso speed cameras.
The traffic light camera was originally used to measure red light offences. Nowadays the camera can also be used in combination with speed measurement, similar to that of a Gatso speed camera. So you could end with a speeding offence as well as a traffic light offence, if you go through a red light camera!
Points and Penalties
Being prosecuted in the UK by a traffic light camera can result in a minimum of 3 penalty points and a £60 fine. This fine amount is currently under review by the government and may increase in near future.
I'm guessing you got that info off the specs site.
It is in the interest of the police (or whoever runs it) that they explain how it works, so its believeable., and people slow down. After all, they aren't going to say they dont work, are they!
I think it's propaganda. That type of technology would be way to expensive.
It would be cheaper to fit a speed restrictor in every car (make the car companies fund it and say its for safety) and a road side 'trigger' that would activate the restictor in various 'safety' areas.
But then again, the police wouldn't recieve an income from it, so I guess they'll never do it. _________________ Garmin Emap, Ipaq 2210 with TomTom Navigator 5, TomTom One, Pioneer AVIC-X1R, TomTom 910 (stolen). TomTom 520, TomTom 6100 (Faulty, replaced under warranty), Currently got a TomTom 6200
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject:
m623d wrote:
Surely if the cameras are so advanced they can see and record number plates at more than 1 a second then how hard can it be to compare those numbers at the next camera, regardless of lane?
I agree that it's not difficult for them to do, however the Home Office gives them approval to use the speed measurement system in a certain way and this approval does not allow them to do it.
m623d wrote:
I cant see how they can view 3 lanes of close together traffic travelling at 50mph at every camera. I think it's propaganda. That type of technology would be way to expensive.
Think about what you can do with a consumer grade camera which costs a few hundred pounds. Now imagine what sort of camera and lens system you can get for £60,000. They even have infra red illuminators for night vision. You would be amazed at at they can do with a high quality setup like this. Sure, it may not catch every single vehicle every single time, but they only have to be lucky once. The motorist has to be lucky all the time.
m623d wrote:
Lets face it, they could introduce a tupperware box, paint it yellow and place it near the side of the road, then say it is a new kind of speed cam, and it would slow people down, because who would risk it!
That's true anyway - many of the Gatso boxes you see have no camera anyway.
m623d wrote:
It would be cheaper to fit a speed restrictor in every car
Sure, but the problem with this idea is that we vote for the government and too many people would be opposed to this law so it would never pass. _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject:
As an aside to this, next time you stop for fuel have a look behind the counter, quite often these days garages employ number plate recognition systems that display the vehicles registration number adjacent to the pumps number.
Have a look for your own cars plate, and then on the way out scan around for the cameras, often there is only one covering the entire forecourt, these are cheap cameras, and the system works.
Expensive cameras can resolve to a far higher degree of resolution (accuracy) and speed. A number plate is very easy to spot with software when being fed by a decent camera, computer technology using optical cameras is a science in its own right, I have even seen spark plug gaps being checked this way to less than 0,1MM at a rate exceeding 30 per second - and yes it can detect the odd few that are wrong!
The camera and software is not the limiting factor with these systems, as Skippy says it is down to the approval.
Without the correct approval the authorities cannot use the evidence the cameras are capable of providing and the computers can process ones and zeros until the cows come home, if its not approved it matters not one little bit - Mike
There is a temporary specs system set up on the road works on the M3 at present, which is providing a very interesting set of observations.
Firstly in comparison to an ordinary gatso no one is generally willing to mess with the specs cameras and drive almost bang on the speed limit, unlike gatsos where some folk will push a few extra miles an hour because they know they'll get away with it.
Secondly a few braver souls are pushing the specs cameras now, to see if there is a little give in those too. Reminds me of when the original gatso were put it, we were all too frightend to test those too. I don't expect it'll be long before we'll all know a secret or two about these new cameras.
On a different note, Two specs cameras and three lanes of fast moving traffic in the right conditions is not to hard to imagine that the specs system could capture every single car that passes. Any one got text recognition software for thier computer. Same thing.
Only as stated earlier would anomilies get through (tailgating, false plates, dirty plates).
A little paraniod, can be healthy. 8O _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
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