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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: Uh-Oh, How Long Before SatNav is Targeted By Police?
[RANT MODE ON]
Just watching a piece on News 24 discussing today's implementation of heavier penalties for using mobile phones. A senior Police Officer made the comment that now they had upped the penalties for using phones perhaps they ought to take a look at the use of SatNav
Whilst I don't doubt that on occasion they may be distracting he made the ludicrous statement that prior to SatNav we all used Road Signs to navigate and because these were outside the vehicle they did not distract the driver! Eh! What the hell does he think road atlases are for I'm pretty sure that if I headed out of my home town, the road signs would not navigate me to some far flung town and using a road map is a darn sight more distracting than any SatNav.
I'm a former Police Officer but the constant desire to legislate instead of educate is becoming a farce.
[RANT MODE OFF] _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Uh-Oh, How Long Before SatNav is Targeted By Police?
Darren wrote:
... he made the ludicrous statement that prior to SatNav we all used Road Signs to navigate and because these were outside the vehicle they did not distract the driver!
That Senior Police Officer has probably not been distracted by the road signs in South Milford, which is a North Yorkshire village. See here for further details.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
I can see that is bad, but try THIS it has 335 road signs in an eight-mile stretch.
I live near Canterbury in Kent HERE, at this A2 junction for Bridge and Adisham, nearly every week a car “forgets” to stop at the busy “T” junction at the end of the picture, carry’s on across the main road and ends up in the trees.
If that stupid Police Officer thinks road signs are to navigate, he wouldn’t have time to see the road let alone navigate.
As all the police decisions taken these days, gaining revenue from the easy picking (mostly law abiding) motorists, is a dammed sight easier than confronting a “true” criminal who fights back. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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On TV I saw a case where a lorry driver ploughed into a line of stationary traffic on a motorway, completely squashing the car in front and killing the occupant. Police noticed his cab mounted mobile radio phone was set in one of it's menu's and the driver eventually admitted he was fiddling with the thing instead of keeping his eyes on the road.
Obviously this shows the dangers of using distracting gadgets and I can see that fiddling with a sat nav. would also be evidence of driving without due care etc..
Generally I find sat navs help safety but sometimes I've found myself endangered by them; usually because of sudden lane swaps or incorrect instructions. I would like to see improvements made in the way instructions are handled. For example TomTom text to speech should be announcing road numbers well in advance and not the few yards before a junction, and then it often misses out speech at some junctions altogether.
Maps and road signs cause serious problems too but I wouldn't be surprised if police start to target people they see tapping at the screen. I've mentioned before though that on many roads there is nowhere to park up either to read a map or program a sat nav..
As all the police decisions taken these days, gaining revenue from the easy picking (mostly law abiding) motorists, is a dammed sight easier than confronting a “true” criminal who fights back.
If they were law abiding, the police wouldn't be able to gain any revenue surely
A true criminal A true criminal is someone who breaks the law, regardless of what law it is.
Ask the family of a victim who was killed by a speeding driver and ask them what a true criminal is. _________________ Tomtom Go730T
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject:
FrequentFlyer wrote:
And how can it be deemed that it's Ok to use two way CB radio ?
Ahh, because the radio frequencies in question are used by the Police and other emergency services.
Apparently all these people have had "special training" so that makes it all right. Including mini-cab drivers? Yeah, whatever.
Darren wrote:
A senior Police Officer made the comment that now they had upped the penalties for using phones perhaps they ought to take a look at the use of SatNav
Depends what you are doing I guess. Programming a route into your sat nav while driving is a lot worse than talking on your mobile in my book. However, I agree that navigating using a sat nav is far safer than trying to navigate using road signs or memory.
Darren wrote:
the constant desire to legislate instead of educate is becoming a farce.
Indeed! I saw maybe a dozen people still yaking away on their phones while driving today. They just don't get it. The only way to get through to them is using some high profile checkpoints.
A couple of times a week I'll be on the bike following someone who is driving eratically and as I pass it transpires that they are talking on their phone (or worse still texting someone!).
I saw a bizzare incident in London the other day where a police car obviously on an emergency call stopped beside a 4x4 to the driver for using his mobile while driving. He was there for a good two minutes, completely blocking two lanes of road before continuing on his emergency call with lights and sirens on. All I can think is that it can't have been that urgent if he had time to interrupt his call to someone! _________________ Gone fishing!
If they were law abiding, the police wouldn't be able to gain any revenue surely
This is debatable, what do you call law abiding? Sometimes law-abiding motorists fall foul of dodgy evidence from over zealous police.
There have been many instances of “speeding” convictions thrown out due to faulty, or lack, of evidence. There have been court case’s lost through obvious faulty laser cameras, in some cases detecting trees doing 6mph, cyclists doing 70mph, many other cases don’t get proven.
What about the police themselves, some seem to think there is one law for them and another for the rest.
I have been overtaken by police – without blue lights on, well in excess of 70mph, on two occasions in the past year alone by vans. I was nearly taken off the road on the M25 by again a police car with no blue lights on, which cut me up (in front of me) on the M11 slip road, was he driving with care and attention?
I am not anti-police and they mainly do a great job, but don’t be naïve and consider that every conviction is justified and the motorist involved is guilty, some are law abiding but get trapped with out the finance, skills or nerve to fight their corner, to prove their innocence.
Quote:
A true criminal A true criminal is someone who breaks the law, regardless of what law it is.
I agree but due to paperwork a lot is lacking here, have you read The Policeman's Blog? Due to current politicians lack of resolve the true criminal seems to get away with it, the motorist does tend to be easy picking.
Quote:
Ask the family of a victim who was killed by a speeding driver and ask them what a true criminal is.
I am fully aware of a “true criminal” and I don’t think the majority of motorists come under that category, except for the drugs/drink drivers, car thieves and joy riders that cause mayhem and death, or maybe the thieves pinching the cars or parts of, but certainly not the motorist doing a couple of mph over the limit.
I am a family victim, a reckless driver killed my daughter and her friend, but he still can’t be classed as a true criminal, as a lot of accidents were not carried out with intent. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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I agree but due to paperwork a lot is lacking here, have you read The Policeman's Blog? Due to current politicians lack of resolve the true criminal seems to get away with it, the motorist does tend to be easy picking.
Of course the motorists are easy pickings, so many of them break the law!!
Quote:
I am fully aware of a “true criminal” and I don’t think the majority of motorists come under that category, except for the drugs/drink drivers, car thieves and joy riders that cause mayhem and death, or maybe the thieves pinching the cars or parts of, but certainly not the motorist doing a couple of mph over the limit.
Now this is where we differ, I see no difference whatsoever in a drink/drugs driver and the others you mentioned to a speeding driver.
In this day and age there is no excuse to drink and drive etc, you can't say "I only had a few, I thought I was under the limit" you KNOW you are in all probability over the limit, and you make a choice wether to abide by the law and not drive or become a potential killer.
The same as a speeding driver, if you are driving in a 30mph limit and you put your foot down to take you over the limit, you are making the same choices, it's all personal choice.
But if you do decide to break the law by speeding, and this is what gets me, nine times out of ten the driver will first of all blame the cameras then they will blame the police, very rarely do they take responsobility for their own actions and choices.
Quote:
I am a family victim, a reckless driver killed my daughter and her friend, but he still can’t be classed as a true criminal, as a lot of accidents were not carried out with intent.
But by driving recklessley (sp) the accident WAS carried out with intent, obviously without knowing the full scenario I can't comment, I am only going on the above statement. _________________ Tomtom Go730T
App 8.300
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Now this is where we differ, I see no difference whatsoever in a drink/drugs driver and the others you mentioned to a speeding driver.
Although I keep to speed limits as accurately as possible, even using cruise control within 30/40 limits where possible, we all have the ability to slightly lose concentration and wander over the mark, a few mph over is three points and a fine, the Government argument over these cameras being only in dangerous or blackspot areas is laughable – it is a money making exercise and there is no doubt about that.
I am not talking about the speeding driver, which I assume to be well in excess of the speed limit, which is different.
How does this compare with drink/drug drivers, car thieves, hit and runs and whatever else you care to name – it doesn’t.
If you condemn the former motorist as a “true” criminal, are you telling us you have NEVER crept over the speed limit in all your motoring days – I doubt it.
Quote:
But by driving recklessley (sp) the accident WAS carried out with intent, obviously without knowing the full scenario I can't comment, I am only going on the above statement.
As much as I feel hate for the driver who killed my daughter and friend, (they were passengers, he was their work friend) I’ve got to admit he was absolutely no different to me, you and the rest of the motorists out there.
At the inquest it was determined that the subsequent reason for the accident was a split second lapse, where he either turned his head to talk to them, or fiddled with the radio. The driver hit a tree; at the time of the accident there was no other vehicle involved.
According to you, the accident was carried out with intent, I’m glad that you are not a magistrate or judge, as you would be fighting for a police state and have us all locked up.
As you have a Sat Nav, I would be interested to know whether it is used on your coach when you can carry 50+ passengers, or with your family in the car, if so you must look at it or touch it. Maybe you are the ultimate “model” motorist who NEVER exceeds the limit at all costs, but as I found out with my daughter there is many other ways to have an accident, carrying out tasks we all take for granted. Maybe Skippy is right using a Sat Nav is also dangerous.
Sorry, I have now ranted far to long and will now get off my soapbox,
what was the topic that started all this? _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
How many times have I (and you!) been driving along, looked in your rear view mirror, realised that a police car had driven up behind you, then looked at your speedometer and realised you were doing 32mph. result £60. + points. Is what I have just done the action of a criminal?
In life whatever our original intentions, accidents do happen and speeds are exceeded by mistake or loss of attention – none of us are perfect.
We are not robots – YET.
_________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:
Quote:
How many times have I (and you!) been driving along, looked in your rear view mirror, realised that a police car had driven up behind you, then looked at your speedometer and realised you were doing 32mph. result £60. + points. Is what I have just done the action of a criminal?
I think what you have just done, in adding your comments, is to have drifted away from reality somewhat. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
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I'm pretty sure that if I headed out of my home town, the road signs would not navigate me to some far flung town and using a road map is a darn sight more distracting than any SatNav.
A true criminal is someone who breaks the law, regardless of what law it is.
the driver for using his mobile while driving. He was there for a good two minutes, completely blocking two lanes of road before continuing on his emergency call with lights and sirens on. All I can think is that it can't have been that urgent if he had time to interrupt his call to 
