TomTom GPS 2.09 breaks other GPS applications

thedon · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm Post subject: GPS 2.09 worked for me...

I thought it would only be fair to post a comment, as I have only had TomTom Navigator 2 (with BTooth TT Receiver) for about 2 weeks - and got this really annoying problem.

Not only did it happen if I was trying to use it "off line" to plan routes, but it also happened in car, whilst trying to launch the application under normal circumstances.

I eventually looked it up on TT support (assuming it was a "user" error to start with) and followed their instructions to load GPS 2.09.

This was easy to do, and the combination has worked perfectly since. I either get a connection and Navigator launches normally, or a message that GPS position is unreliable, and I can continue to use the app offline.

I'm using an IPAQ2210, PPC 2003, and TomTom's branded Bluetooth GPS Receiver. I assume it's the "Plug & Play" type changes mentioned in the support notes that's made the difference.

carl

Hi,
I bought the TomTom Bluetooth GPS intending to use it with an Ipaq 3950 + TDK BluePaq combo. The TomTom was delivered with 2.08 serial drivers, and not being aware of this forum I installed the 2.09 version. The software worked OK before the upgrade and also after (not considering the Bluetooth connection panel popping up every now and then). And I was able to use the OziExplorer when I wanted to - the 2.09 driver had not broken it! :D

Due to the very short range of the BluePaq I decided to replace it with an Ipaq 4150 which, according to the documentation on the TomTom website, needs the 2.09 to work OK. Indeed it did, and after upgrading the system works like a charm - true plug and play. But the OziExplorer does not connect anymore... Sad

The difference between the two systems that comes to my mind is that the 3950 uses the PPC 2002 operating system while the 4150 uses PPC 2003. Perhaps the reason should be sought there?

I have asked both the OziExplorer and the TomTom people if there is a solution to the Ipaq 4150/OziExplorer issue. The Qzi people blame the TomTom software - the TomTom people have not answered yet. I am hesitant to try "unofficial fixes" since the 4150/TomTom works so well right now - using a Navman 3000/SmartSt Pro for a couple of years has taught me to appreciate quick start-up times! (And maps that know of ferries.)

Carl

DavidW · Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:32 am Post subject:

Try uninstalling "TomTom ~ GPS" (Start Menu -> Settings, System tab, Remove Programs) once. That should remove the TomTom Bluetooth drive but not the actual GPS application. Hopefully then OziExplorer will work.

The worst you'll have to do if you uninstall too far is reinstall the TomTom GPS driver.

David

carl · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject:

Just for the record - this is the reply I got to-day from the TomTom support:

carl · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject:

I tried the advice by David (and others) to uninstall the "TomTom ~ GPS". Afterwards the TomTom program refused to start and I had to reinstall the 2.09 serial driver. Now OziExplorer is unavailable by Bluetooth. Reading through this forum I have tried to figure out if a change to the serial driver version 2.07 would rectify this or not while keeping the TomTom working. Any comments?

Everything is not lost, however. I am still able to use a Bluetooth serial connection to my Sony Ericsson T610 when I want to surf on the Internet away from my Wlan. I wonder why - but if it ain´t broke don´t fix it, as the saying goes.

Carl

Dave · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:50 am Post subject:

DavidW · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject:

Actually, if you've got a "TomTom GPS" entry, it means that you didn't uninstall an old version before installing a more recent one. I forget at precisely which version TomTom switched from having the program called "TomTom GPS" to "TomTom ~ GPS" - but it was around 2.06.

As I've always uninstalled before installing a new version, I don't have a "TomTom GPS" entry at all. If you've got one, you should ignore it - it probably won't fully uninstall a recent version of TomTom GPS and it certainly won't remove the (often unwanted) Bluetooth driver. It'll probably just remove the wanted parts of TomTom GPS!

David

carl · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all your suggestions. Of course I cannot be completely sure about what I did last time, but I am pretty sure that I did remove the TomTom ~ GPS. Anyway, that´s what I am having installed right now on my Ipaq 4150 together with TomTom Wizard, TomTom Navigator Voice and TomTom Navigator. And my connection with the TomTom Wireless GPS works!

Here we go again: uninstalling TomTom ~ GPS. Resetting Pocket PC - OK. Starting Ipaq Bluetooth. Starting TomTom - program starts with the message "GPS disabled". Clicking on GPS status. Message: "Unable to launch the GPS control panel". Exiting TomTom. Starting Bluetooth manager. Double-clicking on the icon TomTom Wireless GPS. GPS serial output. Connected. Does the Oziexplorer work? Yes. Trying TomTom again. Still the message: "Unable to launch the GPS control panel".

Well, why not try the 2.07 serial driver that I downloaded from this forum? Uninstalling TomTom Wizard (not sure if I have to, but it belongs to the 2.09 driver - just a precaution). Installing the 2.07 driver (no Wizard in this package!). Now I have to start the Bluetooth manually, but both TomTom and OziExplorer work!!

Except from not having Bluetooth starting automatically I do not know what I lost in the change from serial driver 2.09 (that expressly supports the Ipaq 4150) to 2.07 Thanks again!

Carl

PeteT · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

Hello,
I am a new user of this forum. Hello everyone.

I have a a 2210 with TTN2 and i have come across this problem now. I email tomtom and got this reply

"Dear Mr Thornton,

I am sorry but I dont have a solution for you here. Once Navigator is installed its not possible to release the commport that its using, its just the way the software is designed.
.
With best regards,

The TomTom Customer Support Team"

I don't think this is good enough considering it cost over £100.

I am about to try the fix mentioned earlier. Whats the point of the "TomTom ~ GPS" if it can be removed and it still works?

Pete

DavidW · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:

Let's have a go at clearing up the issues left here.

For those of you that have both "TomTom GPS" and "TomTom ~ GPS", and can't get rid of the pesky Bluetooth driver, I suggest uninstalling "TomTom ~ GPS" twice, then attempting to uninstall "TomTom GPS" if you can. That should completely remove TomTom GPS, at which point you can reinstall whichever version suits your needs (and, if you choose 2.08 or 2.08, optionally uninstall "TomTom ~ GPS" once).

However, I do suggest a proper backup before trying this - ideally with Sprite Backup. If this attempt at a total uninstall followed by a reinstall goes wrong, you could finish up in a right mess that you can't properly uninstall - and for which the only way out is a hard reset (gulp!).

To answer PeteT, for various reasons, TomTom decided to write a DLL that messes around with the Bluetooth stack in 2.08 and 2.09. I forget the precise reason why this was done (I've spent so long advising people how to get rid of it, that I can't remember what problem(s) it was supposed to solve). This DLL often stops you using a Bluetooth GPS in other applications.

The solution is simple. Uninstall "TomTom ~ GPS" once using the Remove Programs feature (Start -> Settings - it's on the System tab). Once you've accepted the mandatory soft reset, the pesky DLL has gone, but the actual GPS driver is still installed, so you can still use TomTom Navigator.

More information on problems with GPS 2.09 can be found in this thread, also in its sister thread.

I hope this helps.

David

PeteT · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject:

Thanks DavidW

I have removed the offending program and it does work a treat.

Thank you again

Pete Thumbs Up

MitchNY · Occasional Visitor Joined: Feb 17, 2004 Posts: 3

I have been complainting to the US customer support about this issue. I am using my pocket pc (HP 1945) to run both TTN2 and memory-map for geocaching. I use TTN2 to navigate to the site, remove the gps driver, and then use Memory-Map. What a pain.

BTY here is the response from US support team: Embarassed

Port conflicts do depend of the Pocket PC in question and the implementation of Bluetooth firmware and how other software uses it. In essence this is in partly to do with the nature of the beast and GPS v2.09 goes some way in trying to simplify the issue. However, the rules of software/device conflict do still apply in some cases. In general computing terms you cannot have to software applications using a communication port at the same time. Pocket PCs also permanently allocate com ports to Bluetooth (such as com 5 or com 8) that are not dynamically renumbered (like plug n play on PCs) if more than one software application is trying to use Bluetooth. You have to completely close / exit one application using a port before you can run another that also uses it. This can be more of an issue for Pocket PC devices as, unlike your Windows PC, the X button at the top right of an application window means minimize rather than Exit. To Exit TomTom Navigator fully choose the Exit button the popup menu in Navigator view or Exit from the file menu in Map view. You may also need to switch off the Bluetooth radio and switch it on again. If the TomTom GPS software fails to close with TomTom Navigator (The GPS satellite dish icon remains in the Today view of the Pocket PC) you may have to reset the Pocket PC. If you uninstall the driver all you might be doing is preventing one application from communicating with its related device and freeing that port for use with the other solution. TomTom's GPS software does switch off the auto sense feature of Bluetooth to prevent the Pocket PC from searching for a GPS receiver that may not be around to respond every time you use TomTom Navigator. If the other application uses the same Bluetooth port you may need to manually reinitiate the Bluetooth link with the other device before you can use it again.

Regards

TomTom USA Customer Service

Dave · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:44 am Post subject:

DavidW · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:48 am Post subject:

It does sound like a rather arrogant response. TomTom wrote ttbtdev.dll (I think it's .dll anyway) for a reason - and it does interfere with the Pocket PC's Bluetooth stack however you choose to look at it.

I've no objection to them trying to simplify matters for their users so long as they give an option to turn their interfering driver on and off, with some explanation as to the significance of that option.

It's the "we'll install it, and if you don't like it, it's up to you to work around it" attitude that grates - just as it grates to install an application on Windows and find it's changed loads of file associations on your system without asking you first (Ahead - are you listening - Nero 6 package 2 does this...).

If TomTom really do want to work round what they perceive as the limitations of the Bluetooth implementation on many Pocket PCs, then Widcomm have produced a SDK that allows driving their Bluetooth stack at a pretty low level. Smart GSM uses this to great effect (once I worked out that I had to set my Nokia 6310i to be visible to all devices, even though it was already paired to my iPAQ, until I'd created the connection in Smart GSM). Smart GSM can turn the Bluetooth radio on if it's off, also it deals with finding devices and port handling completely silently. If the Bluetooth radio was on already, then Smart GSM doesn't turn it off when you disconnect from your phone, though it does turn if off if it was off when you connected to the phone.

As many Pocket PCs use Widcomm's Bluetooth stack, I'd like to commend this approach to TomTom instead of their current one.

David

a4ace · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:12 am Post subject:

if i am happy with 2.08 (not using any other gps software), should i update to 2.09?

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