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Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject:
I wish to clarify my points earlier. Although I am a cop I am not a follower of the "Gatsos will solve it" brigade. They have their place where there have been a high incidence of fatal or serious accidents, if these are shown to be linked to inappropriate speed.
The thing is that accidents are just that, accidents. Nobody goes out their way to deliberately have an accident (well except the occasional suicide). In fact about two years ago, one of the major universities (not sure which one) did a study into accidents and their causes and how to prevent them. They came up with the fact that an accident is a totally randome event which just 'happens' due to several inter-linking causes.
I don't beleive that any more Gatsos will reduce the number of fatalities and town and road planners need to engineer out the problem areas (very few fatal accidents occur on straight pieces of road).
I think the gradual increase in traffic numbers has been a factor in reducing road deaths, as traffic just cannot travel as fast as it would like. You are not likely to be killed on the M25 in rush hour, as the top speed is about 30mph. Also the advances in vehicle safety and medical abilities must also play their part.
As I said in my previous post I am not a fan of many of the Gatso sites, but I am also not a fan of Jeremy Clarkson's ramblings on a whim. Anybody can make figures say exactly what they want and it's all about fiddling with stats to get what you want to say over to your audience. Jeremy is seen as a rebel or anti-establishment, so some people will naturally applaude everything he says. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 179 Location: Reading, UK
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:
MR_TiGGer wrote:
I'm fairly certain that if Cameras could be hidden and disgiused behind signs, within a few years, speeding would be the same a drink driving, and slowly removed. After all only a savage campaign by the police over years has made DD almost a thing of the past.
It'll never go away but it's not acceptable these days, and speeding if treated the same, it too would be unacceptable ..... unlike now.
I doubt it. People simply don't see speeding as being as socially unacceptable as drink driving because they believe (with some justification I would say) that a degree of discretion can be applied to speeding - depending on road, traffic and weather conditions. Driving whilst under the influence of drink or drugs clearly impairs judgement, and is therefore widely accepted as being very different. And very wrong. There is more to this than fines and points.
That's not to say that speeding is always OK, or even usually OK. Of course there are cases where people drive at speeds totally inappropriate to the conditions, and they deserve to be stamped on. But it is very different to drink driving in terms of social acceptance.
And while we're on the subject I'd like to see more action taken against the retarded cretins that apparently cannot drive without a mobile phone held to their heads.
And don't get me started on people with 'baby on board" signs in the back of their cars. If any such person is reading, kindly note that nobody gives a toss. Thank you.
Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Posts: 94 Location: God knows!! Ask Jane
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
The thing is that accidents are just that, accidents. Nobody goes out their way to deliberately have an accident (well except the occasional suicide). In fact about two years ago, one of the major universities (not sure which one) did a study into accidents and their causes and how to prevent them. They came up with the fact that an accident is a totally randome event which just 'happens' due to several inter-linking causes.
I'm surprised you said that considering your job??
Does it not follow that if people drive too fast for thier own skill level, believing themselves to be invunrable due to major advances in car safety, then find themselves either having a major incident or worse still being the cause of one.
This can not be an accident can it? Is it not just reckless behaviour?
I spend too much time on the motorways in the Northwest (Grt Manchester, Liverpool etc etc) and the standard of driving is so poor compared to when I lived down in the South West.
Inside overtaking, tailgating, no indicators and anywhere between 85 and 120MPH is very common behaviour. In turn the luck runs out and motorway shut down for a while. Or 3 rep's cars slammed end to end in the fast lane is a classic on the M62
An "Accident" would be driving normally and safely, but either a mechanical failure or events outside of the car going badly wrong??
Every accident I've had that was my fault was avoidable if I'd just been a little smarter.
Just my personal take is all, not saying you're not entirely right :D
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject:
PatC wrote:
That's not to say that speeding is always OK, or even usually OK. Of course there are cases where people drive at speeds totally inappropriate to the conditions, and they deserve to be stamped on. But it is very different to drink driving in terms of social acceptance.
I wholly agree with you. Speed alone is not dangerous. Inappropriate speed is. I believe there should be variable speed limits, like in France where the speed limit is reduced if it is raining. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject:
MR_TiGGer wrote:
Inside overtaking, tailgating, no indicators and anywhere between 85 and 120MPH is very common behaviour. In turn the luck runs out and motorway shut down for a while. Or 3 rep's cars slammed end to end in the fast lane is a classic on the M62
Can you tell me which is the fast lane on the M62, please? As for inside overtaking, if everyone drove in the left lane except when overtaking, this would surely be a thing of the past. _________________ Tim
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject:
MR TiGGer wrote:
Every accident I've had that was my fault was avoidable if I'd just been a little smarter.
Almost all accidents are avoidable in one way or another and not all are due to driver error. At least you put your hands up and accept you can get it wrong.
There are so many causes and speed is one of them but accidents are randome events caused by a series of circumstances coming together. I'm sure you have heard the old saying "if I left the house two minutes later I wouldn't have had the accident". It is true in some part, but other circumstances occurring two minutes later may have resulted in a bigger accident. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Posts: 94 Location: God knows!! Ask Jane
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject:
Tim Buxton wrote:
MR_TiGGer wrote:
Inside overtaking, tailgating, no indicators and anywhere between 85 and 120MPH is very common behaviour. In turn the luck runs out and motorway shut down for a while. Or 3 rep's cars slammed end to end in the fast lane is a classic on the M62
Can you tell me which is the fast lane on the M62, please? As for inside overtaking, if everyone drove in the left lane except when overtaking, this would surely be a thing of the past.
Ahh but the problem is when you're overtaking in the fast lane and it becomes slower than the middle or inside lane, so the smartarses then switch to the middle to gain the extra 3 car lenghs then cut back in as soon as the fast lane picks up again
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject:
MR TiGGer wrote:
Does it not follow that if people drive too fast for thier own skill level, believing themselves to be invunrable due to major advances in car safety, then find themselves either having a major incident or worse still being the cause of one.
This can not be an accident can it?
Well it may not be helped by them being an idiot, but it is still not intentional. Their driving may be intentional, but the fact they are involved in an accident isn't. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Posts: 94 Location: God knows!! Ask Jane
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
Almost all accidents are avoidable in one way or another and not all are due to driver error.
But come on, the majority are driver error??
Driving like a tw##, shouting at the kids in the back, changing a CD, talking on the phone, chasing the guy who just cut you up, showing off to your school friends ..... etc etc
The list is endless, however with ABS and better tires, more reliable cars, not many things left that are out of your control except the unfortunate badger and such like.
Not saying that all are driver error, but gonna bet the odds at a bookies won't make you alot of money
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject:
MR_TiGGer wrote:
But come on, the majority are driver error??
Yes they are, but you should try my job and investigate a fatal accident. There are always several trajic circumstances which meant that the two or more vehicles would 'happen' to meet in the first place. Once they do meet, it's the driver's ability which comes to the fore. Unfortunately lots of people drive well beyond their abilities. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Apr 20, 2006 Posts: 94 Location: God knows!! Ask Jane
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
Unfortunately lots of people drive well beyond their abilities.
Yup I used to, but I decided I wanted to keep that bit of paper that says I can drive 'on my own'
Oh and wanted to keep my job aswell, not a certainty if I write off my 55 plate Trafic :D
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