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Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: When I gave you details of the cameras it was for free...
When I gave you details of cameras in Watford it was for the good of the community and was to be given out for free. Not for you to charge other users for the information. You should contact previous submitters and ask permision to charge for what you were given for free.
If you think this is costing you too much to keep it free, offer it to someone else who is willing to provide this service for free first.
And if you can't make money from providing this service with all the adds you carry, you should seek professional help.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: When I gave you details of the cameras it was for free...
Sorry, you may have missed my point.
Fine for me, free membership if I had kept the details of the made up names I submitted them under, but not so fine for everyone else. I don't drive for a living anymore, and the need to update must be less now than over the last few years as there are less being installed and the now out of date database I have must have almost all of them.
But, this was a community project where everyone could benifit, I thought.
Now some users will skip updates and that means fines, points and misery, yet contributers like me gave the details over for free.
And, given that all you are doing is maintaining a list on a spreadsheet, most of which is information from others provided for free, the heros of the sat-nav world should be people like checkpoint who actually write applications to make the database useful. Their efforts developing applications extends beyond maintaining a list, and they give it all away for free.
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: When I gave you details of the cameras it was for free..
DeakBrenan wrote:
And, given that all you are doing is maintaining a list on a spreadsheet
That is nothing short a colossal misunderstanding of what we do.
Firstly, we produced the original without outside help. Since then thousands of working hours have been spent (and ongoing) obtaining, compiling, collating, validating, editing, formatting, distributing, supporting and improving upon the database.
The database is a compilation of data arranged in a systematic way. We make a qualitatively and quantitatively substantial investment in the collection, assembly, verification, organization and presentation of the contents of the database and a significant investment of human, financial and technical resources.
I can categorically assure you it is not as simple as maintaining a spreadsheet and, frankly, that assumption is very insulting to the huge amount of work volunteers like Richard, Lutz and the moderators have put into the database over the years. It also insults the intelligence of the 1000s who contribute to it.
When all the verification decisions are made every month, as we sift through the 1000s of new submissions - correct, incorrect, duplicate and incomplete - it would be lovely to think of it just an easy spreadsheet job, but I can categorically assure you that it is not.
You don't have to remember your old usernames. Forgive my assumption, but I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to remember your email address/s that you submitted the cameras with.
Working on the net for over 10 years, and with my appalling memory, even I can remember all of my dozen or so addresses.
Please let us know your addresses. It will be very easy indeed for us to verify your submission. _________________ Robert Brady
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: When I gave you details of the cameras it was for free...
Okay point taken, and I apologise for any distress my comments may have caused.
Yes I can remember exactly the name used to submit cameras, and as I have benefited from checkpoint and your speed camera list numerous times I probably should keep my mouth shut.
I do appreciate the hard work put in by the team. I still have my driving licence so I know I have benefited personally.
No one likes to start paying for something that was free, and some will be put off by having to pay, even though £2 for an up to date list is obviously peanuts.
I do fear new users will end up getting done if they don't fork out for the initial list from the fear that so much stuff on the Internet is unreliable or a scam, so I am still disappointed you feel the need to charge.
I doubt any of the team putting together the database did it with charging for it in mind. Certainly when I contributed to the list the last thing on my mind was for someone to charge for that information.
As it is such an effort for you and the team perhaps you should ask if someone else would like to take it over? Obviously not me. It would be great for the database to be in the public domain for everyone to benefit from.
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: When I gave you details of the cameras it was for free..
DeakBrenan wrote:
As it is such an effort for you and the team perhaps you should ask if someone else would like to take it over? Obviously not me. It would be great for the database to be in the public domain for everyone to benefit from.
Thanks for your hard work so far. Deak.
Thanks Deak
Although we now have a full-timer in place we still treat the work involved as a labour of love.
For future reassurance, we're very proud to report that since the charge was introduced, with Richard and Lutz's help (they created a fantastic system that works in the background providing the tools for greater accuracy), the reported accuracy has indeed improved.
Joined: Aug 21, 2005 Posts: 1761 Location: Kent, England
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject:
Deak
a bit of reassurance. The old database (January 2006) with your contribution on is still on the site and still free to all. It is only the new updates that are subscription only.
There has been lots of discussion about this when first announced. I for one think that the site has come up with the best compromise. By the way I am not benefitting as I have to pay the full subs. _________________ Peter
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