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New Mobile Phone law and GPS
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phil4
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Joined: Oct 28, 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:08 pm    Post subject: New Mobile Phone law and GPS Reply with quote

You've probably all heard about the new law regarding use of a mobile phone while driving car, coming in to force on 1st December.

I was just flicking through a magazine and noticed the following comment:

"The aim of the new regulation is to prohibit the activity of operating hand-help devices while driving and so it will also apply to other interactive electronic devices that access data if the driver has to hold them during at least part of its operation".

I wonder if anyone knows where this puts things like pocket powered GPS etc. etc.

I really don't want to be without my GPS, but then I couldn't afford 3points on my license either.

Any thoughts?
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Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a very interesting subject. I have a Bluetooth setup on the phone with voice activation so I'm not too bothered, but I have been reading up on this very subject over the past few weeks.

The RAC's website stipulates that "The legislation will make it illegal to use your phone if you hold the phone at any point during its use. The law also applies to any interactive device such as PDAs or navigation aids. “Holding” includes cradling the phone between your ear and shoulder." but they seem to be the only ones so far that are stipulating this, the AA aren't mentioning PDA's.

However the AA do stipulate "Driving without proper control of a vehicle will be strengthened to a £60 fine and endorsement. It will cover other distractions, including eating, drinking and smoking. "

So if you are found to be weaving, or distracted by your PDA, you can still in theory receive a £60 fine and 3 point endorsement under the umbrella of "undue car and attention".

The government's official response is here http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page4003.asp
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phil4
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone is (rightly) focused on mobiles, but it does seem that a lot of us pocket GPS bods could suffer from a cop with a grudge.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree, and although I have a Road Angel in-car all the time, I can see the same sort of looks and frown upons being cast over the PDA like a radar detector or speed detector would receive. The policeman pulls you over, you wind down your window and he immediately looks at the PDA in front of you and says. "Hmmm, I see you have a PDA there sir, were you using it whilst you were driving ?".

There's no denying it though, PDA's and Mobiles are distracting. Personally I would say PDA's more than mobiles, because most of the time you have a stylus in your hand trying to tap a 10 pixel diameter area of the screen with preciseness.

Unfortunately I think it's going to be one of those gray areas.
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russgunn
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A colleague of mine was stopped recently by the fuzz for a minor traffic offence, but the officer asked about his window suction mounted PDA when he spotted it and whether he was using it at the time of driving. He was obviously trying to draw an answer out of driver along the lines of 'yes I need to use it while driving in order to navigate'. He'd then 'do him', as they say, for undue care and attention.

However, his reply was 'no, I don't need to use it or watch it on the move as it gives me voice instructions. The officer was happy with this. Remember to use this excuse if you get pulled.

Voice instructions are fine as it's just the same as listening to music while driving, which isn't illegal of course. However, listening to Bryan Adams, The Corrs, Celine Dion or Blazin' Squad whilst driving is illegal and every road traffic officer has the authority to trunchen you to within an inch of your life for doing so. You've been warned.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good warning, thanks Russ!

I have always wondered what their questions would be when stopped, I suppose the thing to do also is to blank the screen (if you have an iPAQ) by holding the power button in, that way it doesn't look like a bright screen.

I suspect they may still do you if there's a bright screen in front of you.
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russgunn
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if they can Dave. If you look at the in car systems that are available today, most have full colour screens on show to the driver. Some Volvos even have one which comes out of the top of the dash, which in my opinion is more obtrusive than a Brodit mount near the vents. My bosses Audi A6 also has a full colour screen for it's GPS system which is placed in the centre of the cockpit console. Again, you'd need to look even further down to see this type of screen, more so than a normal PDA position.

If UK law had a problem with these positions as displayed in these cars then Volvo and Audi wouldn't have been able to release them in the UK. Therefore I'm assuming we are OK. Unless of course the officer catches you playing around with it on the move. I guess the idea to put across to the police is that you always set your destination before you start driving and then just follow the audiable navigation. Never admit to the odd button presses in order to navigate to a POI en route etc and under no circumstances should you get out of the car, point to the sky saying 'Look at that!' while trying to steal his radio. :D
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Etwell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next time you are near a polic car I suggest that you try to have a look inside.

If it is at all 'new' you may find it loaded down with so much hardware and video screens that you may wonder what it is all for.

GPS units are currently on some cars and for years linked computer systems have been installed.

However back to the original assumtion that GPR might become an expensive liability. If you are so foolish as to try re-programming or fiddling about with it whilst on the move you must expect all you get.

However if you are only listening to the instructions is this any different to listening to the car radio; I think not.

Also bear in mind that police officers have for years been receiving and sending radio messages whilst on the move, otherwise they would never get anything done!
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padawan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:49 pm    Post subject: Dashboard Reply with quote

Makes me wonder what all those driver aids spread around the dashboard are then. You know the ones. Light up at night in all manner of garish colours and distract you into keeping within the speed limit by taking your eyes off the road.

Hmmm. I think we'd all better emulsion my speedo black so I can't get distracted in that way again...
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stuart
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:25 pm    Post subject: The Police Force and Mobile Phones and Similar Devices Reply with quote

I personally wouldn't get to worked up over something which may never happen to you... This is the Governments site to look at.

What does the regulation say about hand-held phones?
The use of a hand-held phone or similar hand-held device while driving will be prohibited. A hand-held device is something that "is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function".
A device is "similar" to a mobile phone if it performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data. Examples of interactive communication functions are sending and receiving spoken or written messages, sending or receiving still or moving images and providing access to the internet.
2-way radios are subject to special treatment under the regulations.

Television Sceens...Are not to be used in a motor vehicle if the screen is visible to the driver or might distract the driver of any other vehicle on a road, Contrary to the Construction and Use Regulations

So PDA's are OK if they are not transmitting or receiving data, or showing Eastenders.

And remember, the average Police Officer spends 50 % of their duty time shut in the station doing the paperwork. They much prefer to be out driving patrol cars, and mingling with the public. Trust me, I know... !!!
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Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, you're not usually seen driving one of those unmarked cars around Dorset by any chance ? 8O
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stuart
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:41 pm    Post subject: Mobile Phones and Similar Devices Reply with quote

What ever gave you that idea Dave....No
But I know plenty who are. Driving

( Now retired from them and drive all over the UK and Europe, usually testing my gadgets. And get paid for it. ) Police
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phil4
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BBC's take on this is that as long as the PDA is held in dash-mount all will be fine and dandy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3251725.stm

Quote:
So I have to get a factory fitted mobile?
No, a cradle that holds your mobile and is fixed to the dashboard will do the job. You will need a hands-free kit to continue the conversation, such as an earpiece and microphone or a Bluetooth headset. Interactive PDAs and navigation aids will also need cradles.


So, I'd better buy one and stop using my current velcro bodge job.
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Buffy Beagle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"So, I'd better buy one and stop using my current velcro bodge job."

Phil, surely if your "velcro bodge job" is holding your PDA securely on the dashboard in a good position to view it without moving your head or having to take your hands off the steering wheel, then that is all you need?

Buffy :0)
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New Mobile Phone law and GPS Reply with quote

phil4 wrote:
I wonder if anyone knows where this puts things like pocket powered GPS etc. etc.

I really don't want to be without my GPS, but then I couldn't afford 3points on my license either.


You can still use your mobile phone/GPS/pocket pc/Road Angel/RADAR detector so long as you don't hold it in your hand while you use it. If it is mounted somewhere in your car so you don't have to pick it up to use it then you are well within the law.

If a police person stops you and asks if you were using your gadget while you were driving then don't answer the question. It is in your best interests to be polite but you are not obliged to imcriminate yourself. Give some vague answer.

And contrary to popular belief, the new offence of using a hand held phone while driving is not endorseable. It's a £30 quid fine, no points.
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