Safety Camera Fees - Details

Solo · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

I think we all have been mugged!
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dougconran · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: Will I get my money back ...

To the PGPSW Team:-

I repeat the questions I asked on page 17:-

1. Is the database governed by the Distance Selling Regulations and thus will I be able to get my money back if I don't like it?

2. If I (or anyone else) am flashed by a camera not in the database it is therefore demonstrably 'not fit for the purpose sold' - will I get my money back?

MrRusty · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 17

Zaki · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject:

point 2 if you buy a road atlas, and you find a road that isn't shown, is it "not fit for purpose"?. I don't think so.[/quote]

Surely this depends on version age, if the road was there prior to production of the atlas, then yes it is not fit for the purpose, I do not consider the Camera database to be software but more of a product.

dougconran · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:55 am Post subject:

To be honest, guys, I don't want to start a discussion on this I just want an answer, one way or the other, from the PGPSW team (which is why the original post was addressed to them) so that we all know where we stand - then we can make an informed decision on whether it is worth buying the database.

Zaki · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:26 am Post subject:

cornz · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:28 am Post subject:

If you speed and get flashed by a camera, how is that a fault of the database. All speed camera locations must have signs within x distance. If you choose to ignore those signs and speed, you have no one to blame but yourself.
The blurb on the speedcamera website says essentially the same thing.
Its an aid, not a solution.

Calligrapher · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:17 am Post subject:

Why are we getting no replies from those who seek to change the rules of the game? The moderators are saying, 'We're only the moderators, not the bosses, don't shoot the messenger'.

As has previously been asked, time and time again, what is your response to the many criticisms of the actual decision, the way it was announced, the lack of meaningfull response to queries, et al.

Or are we to judge that your response is, 'let them grumble away for a few weeks, there's plenty of new boys out there who will buy what we are selling, so let's ignore the present site members and they will go away'.

How professionally you have handled things.

A number of very helpful suggestions have been made, a number of silly remarks have been made in return.

I honestly believed that I had joined a site that was populated by enthusiasts, led by a dedicated team of self taught experts who were propounding the joys of gps technology.

Perhaps I'm just naive.

Tell me I'm not, or even just tell me what you think to this hornet's nest you have stirred up.

Skippy · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Will I get my money back ...

juliem · Occasional Visitor Joined: Oct 13, 2004 Posts: 7

Like some who have posted I'm not happy about this looming charge. I understand the need for the charge and want the database to be kept up to date, but also free. Couldn't people donate money?? I'd donate money for a great service and I'm sure other people would too, but will that be enough to cover your running costs? I feel donations would be the best solution. Sure some people wouldn't donate and others would but at least you have mix of the two.

flinty99 · Lifetime Member Joined: Jun 07, 2004 Posts: 9

cornz · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject:

Nothing is free in this world. Ive used the database for free for a number of years now, its probably saved me 3 points on several occasions.
Christ folks, its £2.00. Less than a pint of beer, same as carparking for a couple of hours. Its not a great deal is it really. Sheesh, shut up moaning, if you dont like the idea then go elsewhere. Every other site has been charging for this data a lot longer than PGPSW. If other sites do it then so should this one. I bet the amount of users has increased exponetially in the last few years. I say the guys who run it should get some recompense.

I dont mind paying a few quid to keep my licence clean(er). Besides, if youve ever contributed then its free isnt it. Fair trade, i keep the camera database upto date in my area and i get it free. WHats the problem there then..If you havent been bothered to contribute then you must expect to pay.
My rant over...
Cornz.#

gingernut777 · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject:

cornz,

Are you another one on the 'Payroll'

The database was supplied 'By the People for the People'

As it says HERE

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=26703&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

They were moaning other were charging for the database, now they themselves want to charge for it.

Double dealings I think.
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Diplo · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject:

neil01 · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject:

There seems to be a quite a lot of hypothesis about responsibility/liability here. But if I remember correctly (and please correct me where I am mistaken), you and you alone are responsible for any law which you break. Others may be guilty of the ADDITIONAL offence of 'aiding and abetting', but this is quite a separate matter.

So far as any database is concerned, they are not 'allowing you to speed', they are simply warning you of areas where the road conditions are such, that you need to be aware of your speed - to attempt to do anything else would possibly be illegal. You are responsible in ensuring that you are driving within the speed limit - not anyone else. They have no liability for any speeding tickets.

As for the accuracy of the data, and fitness for purpose, any 'unfitness' would have to be proved in court. As it is known and accepted that a database, which is after all a historical document, is never 100% up-to-date, where would the law (not anyone else) draw the line? And remember there are many aspects to consider here - missing data, extra data, data where the limit is too high, data where the limit is too low, along with the time it takes the data to be corrected (i.e. for how many releases), also, each type of error would probably be weighted differently. Can you imagine the costs involved in providing evidence acceptable to a court.

I really do wish that someone would close this thread; it is now so long that it is just about impossible to re-read to check that you are not repeating what has been said before, and as a consequence seems to be going around in circles. In the event that you do read the complete thread, it would probably take several days just to make sense of all the different information it contains.

There are at least two major threads, one to do with responsibility for the quality of the data, and another about charging for the database, along with probably numerous other smaller ones.

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