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What happens if I pay to download the database and I find that a significant percentage of the cameras around the area where I live are not featured or inaccurately placed?
you should note their positions and submit the updates...
Diplo wrote:
Will I be entitled to a refund?
no, but you'll get a free month subs
not sure if it's 1 month free per camera or 1 month free per submission (multiple cameras in 1 go) _________________ SW
What happens if I pay to download the database and I find that a significant percentage of the cameras around the area where I live are not featured or inaccurately placed? Will I be entitled to a refund? When the database was free people didn't mind if it wasn't accurate (indeed this inspired us to post corrections). However, now it's purely commercial, will you be offering a full commercial service ie. guaranteeing quality with refunds where standards are not met?
I fully appreciate your need to be self-sustaining but if you are seeking to pursue a commercial career with this database then you need to take on the responsibilities that entails and that delivering a high level of service from day one. It will be no good saying, "Well, the database is 60% accurate but will get better" because if I pay for it then I want it to meet high levels of accuracy from day one. You can no longer rely on peoples' good will to ignore deficiences.
I thoroughly echo the sentiments - and it's as I have said on previous messages. If you are selling the database, then there has to be some sort of guarantee as to it's accuracy. To put it simply, if you went a bought an item from a shop which did not match up to the expectations you were lead to believe - then you would quite rightly request and expect a refund - and more importantly, I dare say you would not buy the same item again.
It's the same with this database, give it free, and people are willing to accept the odd inaccuracy. Sell it, and they quite rightly expect a perfect product.
Joined: Nov 03, 2004 Posts: 251 Location: Earth where else
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:28 am Post subject:
I wonder if the " Sale of Goods Act " could be enforced.
You know,
Satisfactory quality eg:
(a) fitness for all purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability’
Goods also have to be ‘fit for their purpose’. If you make your particular purpose for the goods known to a seller, this may create an implied term of contract – in other words there may be a legal implication that the goods are ‘reasonably fit for that purpose’ (even if that purpose is not the purpose for which the goods are commonly supplied – see section 14(3) of the 1979 Act).
Just a thought. _________________ Using an A to Z
Sextant & Compass
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 112 Location: Liverpool, UK
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:21 am Post subject:
Quote:
Subscription extended free for one month if you report just one previously unreported static speed camera position. Multiple cameras = multiple free months. (Must consequently be verified by PocketGPSWorld.com.)
I'm wondering how exactly you are going to verify whether newly reported cameras actually exist or not? The only way I can see you could verify a camera would be to actually drive out to it and visually check it's location which I wouldn't have thought would be practical for the whole of the U.K. If you are not able to personally verify cameras then their is a real risk that people will have an incentive to report false camera locations simply to extend their membership for free. What would stop me making up 12 cameras in remote spots of the UK to get effectively a years free membership? I don't wish to be negative but these kind of questions need to be addressed satisfactorily before launch. _________________ Medion 95000 | TT3.07 | Kingston 512MB SD
With regard to the verification of new/deleted sites, one idea may be to "employ" (free subscription) a number of trusted people throughout the country that could do the checking?
Randome quality checks could be carried out to maintain the validity of these peoples work.
I am new here and just wondering why you are going to charge subscription like propose. why not have a flat rate subscription for everyone £2-5 and that gives them one years worth of updates.
Those who contribute a speed cam position, will get access to a members privilged forum area, and those already contributed automaticly get access to that forum area, maybe on top of that they all get a chuckle button to add a chuckle symbol to someones post.
this will slove two problems:
1. People will be prepared to pay the subscription for the download and still be part of a community:
2. People will be less inclined to make fake speed cam postions just for a free download and instead have an insentive to be part of a privilged community.
There can be 3 community forum areas:
1. Free for those who just visit the site and dont want to download.
2. Paid members area, support for product and downloads + members forum area.
(maybe a hug/friend button that can be used to add a hugg symbol to any post both in Free and members forum)
3. Those who contribute new locations - Same access as 2 and also a Priviliged member forum plus an extra Chuckle Button with a chuckle symbol to add to any forum.
Rasing money can be made by more pay per click advertising and community members should encourge each other to click, and also a note to all paid members to contribute slightly more at there discresion via paypal.
These are just some ideas, to think about they may or may not work but I would imagine more people will join with a lower inital joining fee and with help and support forums included, those deciding not to pay and look else where to download will not getting the support, or the community. _________________ Orginase your own TomTom menus at:
Darren as my GO is on it's way to Tom Tom for repair and has been out of action since just befor Christmas will I get free membership by default or an extension of time to submit Cameras once GO is back working. Or will I be penalised for having a broken GO.
AS a new member signed up to day, I thought I would express my views.
Do ppl object to paying because its been free for yers or for some other reason?
When I look at Road Angel which is the system I currently have and was thinking of upgrading it to a Road Angel Sat Nav system they charge £4 PM for up dates, so the choice of £2 a down load or £19 a year appears to be fair to me.
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 112 Location: Liverpool, UK
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject:
solo12002 wrote:
Do ppl object to paying because its been free for yers or for some other reason?
I cannot speak for everyone, but some of the objections include:
We were told the database would always be free and this encouraged many to contribute to it as our contributions were for the good of the community and not for someone else to make a profit from.
Whilst the staff at PGPS do a sterling job and contribute a massive amount of their free time to running the site they do not "own" the database, they help host and maintain it. The content itself has come from the general public who gave it under the impression it would remain free.
There are doubts as to the feasibility of how a commercial database can be run successfully. For instance, will people still want to contribute? How will this effect accuracy? Will the quality of the database be maintained so that it meets commercial standards?
Are the current ideas, as outlined by the PGPS team the fairest and most sustainable way forward? In the end everyone wants to have the best database available but there are doubts as to whether going commercial will achieve this. It's rather like an open source piece of software suddenly going commercial without much consultation.
Now, personally speaking, I think the PGPS team have addressed some of these concerns. However, I do get the impression this is still a fate accompli and that not enough consultation has yet taken place.
I also believe that charging for the contents of the database is simply wrong, since it's not their own to sell. However, I do think it's more than fair for us to pay for the PGPS team to help maintain and host the database, which takes a lot of hard work. My problem is I get the impression they are trying to make this into a profitable enterprise and they have not really thought through all the implications this entails nor have they considered the real possibility that this could kill the database (if quality is perceived as bad then people will not subscribe meaning quality will get worse causing an irreversible downward spiral).
I believe a better, fairer working model is needed to make this work and this can only be achieved by a longer consultation period. _________________ Medion 95000 | TT3.07 | Kingston 512MB SD
This throws up 4 different 'databases' that are all, bar one, cheaper than the proposed £2.00 download charge.
I know cheapest is not always best.....but you don’t really know what you are getting with any 'database' that you buy.
In the end 'the consumer' will decide......who remembers Video 200, Philips Laser Vision and Betamax? ALL were much better than VHS.....but which format won in the end?
If the data is sound i.e. accurate and complete the concept is a winner...if not the whole forum could crash&burn as the 'core' of the site is a common wish (commercial or otherwise) to help others, while getting a bit back yourself - a classic 'Win Win' situation.
The bottom line is that the consumer is king - if they don’t want to buy, they wont buy. Price is seldom a genuine reason not to buy. Service and convenience are usually ahead of price in all the research.
Given the choice between a 'cheap product at a cheap price' OR a 'good product at a good price' ...most people opt for the latter.
Until the Feb update it will not be possible to accurately judge what the outcome will be. Until then perhaps the Forum Directors should be allowed to focus on making the Data the most robust that it can be.
There are many other excellent aspects to the site - But I have not read much about how good these are. So perhaps some credit should go to the guys. Commerce is not a bad thing - Even Russia and China see that now.... The UK is the 4th richest 'country' in the world...how does everyone think we got to be this way?
Wish I could edit this post mind you...bound to have made a few spelling errors that I will spot later...or have pointed out to me...
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: Speed Camera Data
Having read posts in this section, I support the view that the current POI Speed camera Database should remain Public Domian - FREE to users.
However, if the intention is that users will have to pay for the download, it may be that there will be competitors out there who may also provide the same data for a nominal fee. I understand that the Speed Camera data is freely available from the Road Safety Partnerships around the uk, their data includes the exact map reference for each location both Static and Mobile camera locations. Therefore it would be a simple task to collect this information from each partnership and transfer the data into a single file of the correct format. This file would then be more accurate than the current set as the data would be provided from a reliable source. I have myself downloaded speed camera locations from a local Road Safety Partnership site. It may also be possible to reach an agreement with each Safety Partnership that when new camera's are sited that the data is sent to who ever is going to collate the data.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: How do you stop this? The consumer will decide.
[quote="
This throws up 4 different 'databases' that are all, bar one, cheaper than the proposed £2.00 download charge.
[/quote]
Item no.1 claiming to be the latest is 3 months old, item 2 & 4 are the same vendor, item 3 has the same cameras as listed on PGPSW database (wonder where he got them from?) and no date. Laughingly or as an insult, at the bottom HE claims to have done all the hard work himself. POI data is easily manipulated and for saving a few pennies I would not trust these sources.
Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising
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