Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

Flashyphotos · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:

The More Things get popular the easier it becomes to move the Goalpost

Back in 1985/6 Sky turned around when they launced the encrypted Sky movies and announced that Ad supported channels like Sky One would always be free and never become part of a subscription package

Look at it now!

Its a case of once the groundswell is behind a product and the general populus will accept a charged product then it will be charged,! Lets face it the people they lose who refuse to pay, will probably be replaced by Newbies who bought systems in just this Christmas period,

Its a sad fact but Mass Appeal= Cash Appeal!

dibble · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject:

Just to add my two penneth!! It may have been covered but I just don't have time to read 53 pages which is where this stands at the moment!!

I have no objections to paying £2.00 per download - it seems to me that it was all too good to be true anyway - but for a couple of years it was!!

The payment method is my niggle - it may be better to ask for a one off charge yearly for this reason - seems to me that if there is a charge with every download, there will be an extra set of rules and bits to fill in before you get to the download stages. It could be, that there may be times where there are problems with this area and so not allowing you to get to the files you need. If you impose a one off charge you will bypass that. Mind you - then the servers have to recognise the fact that you have paid already so it could mean the same thing!!

Brain is hurting now!! I'll pay the money - you provide the reliable service of which I am acustomed to!!

Dibs[/b]
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Don't take life too seriously - you'll never get out of it alive!

PhilipB · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject:

This is the first time that I have posted on the Pocket GPS forum although I have been using the speed camera database for many years. During this time I have provided numerous updates to the database, new and revised camera locations.

I personally consider that the Pocket GPS team have obviously given large amounts of their time and knowledge supporting the community and thank them for the input.

The payment for the speed camera database, in my opinion is totally wrong as it was created by the community for the community. If funds need to be raised, which I can fully understand, then some form of site membership fee would in my opinion be the best option.

I will continue providing camera updates and assist in any other area’s if required.

I do not and will not use PayPal so hopefully there will be alternative payment methods available with options for different time periods, monthly/yearly/life time.

Hopefully, the poor way that the issue of charging a fee for the download of the camera database has not destroyed the community spirit.

gsxr1000 · Regular Visitor Joined: Mar 14, 2005 Posts: 66

maybe worthwile option here

what if, everyone who comes over here has to register.

and against any given username a series of credits can be recorded for any members who discover and report new cameras to be off-set against the download charge.

obviously some cameras might be reported by hundreds of members for example around the london (busy populated) area,

so maybe the first five "hits" can be recorded to ensure accuracy and all new cams to be displayed in a new "database updates page" and to show the mods "transparency" so that issues can be addressed regarding false reporting

and for other members to lookat to decide the worthwhileness of purchasing the new latest update,

or not as the case maybe for someone who travels less miles with no updates in their area

over time this should be a fair system so those who contribute will receive a fair recompense (credit on their account) for good information

this should also go someway to balance people complaining they cant afford to pay up as they can help themselves to a free update for their efforts

SonniesEdge · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:

Admins,

I've never posted here before and have only been aware of this site for a couple of weeks (hey, I only got my first pda/gps combo then!), so take my following ramble with however much salt you require.

The most desirable thing that a website can have is a sense of community. People who feel that they are part of a community will do anything to help keep the community spirit alive. They will volunteer time, donate money and act as evangelists for your site, all for the grand fee of

all.

However, the head honchos here seem to have unintentionally killed, or at least severely harmed, the community spirit at pocketGPS. You can't just declare that you're making something that was free ("and will always be free") into a paid-for product without upsetting people who have emotionally invested in the site. A period of consultation should have taken place and community members should have been made to feel part of the decision making process.

You need to learn by example: As part of getting into this whole gps thing I stumbled across Geocaching.com. They seem to have struck a successful balance between community spirit and financial support of staff and hardware. They offer the basic, fundamental services for free but charge for DESIRABLE EXTRAS. This means that everyone feels like they can take part but those who are affluent or addicted enough will gladly pay for additionals.

The basic offering could be a perhaps a slightly older or cut-down version of the speed camera database (maybe a month out of date or with only the stationary speed cameras included?). Additionals could then be things like an up-to-the-minute version of the database, or things like mobile speed cameras/red light cameras/etc included.

Pricing: £24 per year (assuming someone were to update once a month as they do now) is too much. Not financially (anyone who owns a satnav can afford that) but psychologically. Make it £10 per annum and people will willingly pay ("A tenner for a year? That's alright...").

Other people have suggested ways of cutting your costs. Splitting the 1.7mb database download into smaller more relevant parts would be a start. Redesigning the site to be more streamlined (therefore saving bandwidth) would be another. Opening the site/database up to more trusted volunteers would be a VERY good direction to go. However, if you just start charging for the database without exploring other options then it just makes it look like you're going for the quick buck. And to be honest, my first thoughts upon reading the news were "they're hoping to get brought by someone".

And why stop at a speed camera database? Go further: start offering other useful POIs (maybe only to members?); get involved with other sites who maintain continental camera databases and offer them here (again, maybe only to members); organise more meets; develop useful software for pda owners.

There is so much more that you could be doing. To justify around £24 per person per year you have to be seen to be doing SOMETHING.

I hope you find some of this post useful. Please don't just go ahead with your plans as they are: they WILL kill this site. As I've only just found it I'd really appreciate it if you didn't kill it...
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dougconran · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:10 pm Post subject: This is for the Moderators

Like many, having to go through the hassle of paying per download is a real turn-off for me.

Have you looked at billing through the use of premium rate SMS messages?

I don't know how much you need/want to make but you'd clear at least 50p for £1, it is dead easy for the punter and you could resolve issues about failed downloads by providing a window of time during which a code was valid.

SonniesEdge · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject:

Admins,

Just sitting here playing with my new TomTom software and it has struck me how much I'd love to have some specialist POIs. For example, I'd love to have an overlay that (and don't laugh here) would show good places for walking my dog. Seriously, that would be so useful for me. And it's not just that - how about a community-built database of good places to take kids on days out? Picnic spots? Good pubs?

If you offered extra things like that then I'd absolutely be willing to pay you money for a subscription. Okay, I know that some of these POI overlays exist already, but if there was something that was regularly updated and rated by the community then that would be fantastic.

mcwarre · Regular Visitor Joined: Mar 25, 2004 Posts: 157

FFS it's about time some perspective was put on this. Over 50 odd pages all I have seen basically (with a few honourable exceptions) is whinging. Constructive criticism would be more helpful and, perhaps, involve Mike et al in the discussion. Until that happens then I feel that there will be little benefit in continuing this thread as is.

Perhaps a poll with some options set by the MODs?

Heydude · Occasional Visitor Joined: Apr 25, 2005 Posts: 11

:D

You have got to be kidin m8!..I see constructive converstion all around us!

We are the members who supply the data base!..are you gonna pay us for our work?

Sean16 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 23, 2004 Posts: 24

I really think it's time for this thread to be closed and for Admin to reply with what they think regarding the comments left by users of this site, then maybe start another thread for us to reply to with what suggestion they are think of imposing regarding this matter. After 50 odd pages I think users of this site are going around in circles with there comments and to be honest it’s getting rather boring, so come on Admin users have spoken and now it’s your turn to have your say.

orange1234 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 12, 2005 Posts: 3

Rule number 1. in business don’t

your customers off !

Judging by the length of this thread that’s exactly what you’re doing. I have already noticed the speed camera updates on file sharing sites. I am guessing the updates after January will be there too. – funny how they weren’t there before this month ?

It seems to me that you should keep the software "amateur" and get a "professional" in the marketing Dept. He'll make you more money from advertising than what your Software guru will do.

In 30 years of business - What do I know, hey people have to learn their own mistakes and I’m sure you’ll employ your Guru and run the marketing yourself, loose the goodwill of camera spotters and spend thousands (hundreds of thousands !) on protecting your copyright to the database which is not even yours.

If your not making money from advertising then offer the opportunity out on a pure commission basis, or rent out portions of the site to different agents and max your income. How many downloads of the database do you get. I bet there are thousands of companies who would love to have access to those punters one way or another.

I guess your commited to employing your guru, who will have to be paid from the £2.00 downloads. I hope he generates more than he costs.

If he's so certain of making you the bucks he promises then I'd offer him a few shares and fund him for 3 months afterwhich - he's self employed. I bet if you offered him that he'd walk away. Good luck and don't be blinded by an impressive C.V.

technik · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:26 am Post subject:

The PocketGPS Speed Camera Database has now lost all credibility.

If a charge is introduced from January, then any updates from non-paying members are going to be full of bogus information. The only way to secure the credibility of the database, is to only allow annual subscription paying members to contribute. This will result in far fewer updates to the database which is already a long way from being accurate.

The only way forward is to keep the database free for everyone.

hypno2001 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2

Dear me

Looks like as with everything good, it never lasts for ever and someone tries to make money out of it and then all the enthusists have to go find another place to set up, and in time that will no doubt also get ruined by greed.

I certainly wont ever update the database with new cams fixed or mobile that i find should a price be put on the cam database.

In the original post they say its so good and accurate, but it needs to be more profesional??

Erm as fas as im concerned it does the job perfectly and its as profesional as i and probably most users need!!! (by users for the users)

By profesional they must mean CORPORATE i guess?!?!

delboy0754 · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:48 am Post subject:

I won't be paying for any camera database.

WHY not have another poll to see what the majority of members, "who provide the information" what THEY think about a fee.

You seem to have only asked 750 people at the PocketGPSWorld.com Basingstoke Event, and i always thought voting ALWAYS went with the majority.

So lets have another poll, online, on here.

I'm disgusted.

hypno2001 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2

As per delboy0754 I have to agree. A full scale poll would be a great way to get a reaction from the people who actually update the database. Seems sensible to me, also as iv been reading through all the other posts i noticed a few arguments in regards bandwith. Now im not going to tell people how to run a site BUT. Things like bittorrent, emule, even free file hosting does exist!. There is always a way to solve problems you just have to go looking for the answer! I guess failing that you just charge money and save yourself the effort!

to sum up:
Excellent site full of great users with added adition of cam database, I feel charging would damage the spitit of the site and id personaly not come back again. Sad

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