Hi! We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
But as we’re losing ad-revenue from this then why not make a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
We also accept NO liability whatsoever for you receiving any speeding fines or points on your license through using this database or guarantee the accuracy of the data contained within this database either expressed or implied.
Why almost everywhere do PGPSW refer to the database as "ours" as in Theirs, yet in the above sentence found on the Download page it becomes
"this"
On first reading this thread the day it came out I thought,OH well all good things come to an end and £2 a month is good value I still think that but after reading reply after reply I do feel for those that have taken an active roll in reporting sites and updating them. Those of you who have done this must feel to say the least very used and upset as I would be. I now agree that if this D/B is charged for there will be a lot of good will lost from those users and the accuracy of the D/B would very soon suffer.
I have only been a member since May 21, 2005 with only 13 posts but have been a regular visitor and got a lot of value from what I have read from this site. I have not contributed to the D/B as in the eara I mostly drive being norfolk I have not come across many unreported sites. Thoses few I have at the time have been unable to report the info due to time and situation If I could get the POI thingy to work then I would update the sites in my area.
So my offer here is if there is another site starting up it will have my full support and I would update the sites that I know of in my area, just get in touch with me.
On first reading this thread the day it came out I thought,OH well all good things come to an end and £2 a month is good value I still think that but after reading reply after reply I do feel for those that have taken an active roll in reporting sites and updating them. Those of you who have done this must feel to say the least very used and upset as I would be. I now agree that if this D/B is charged for there will be a lot of good will lost from those users and the accuracy of the D/B would very soon suffer.
I have only been a member since May 21, 2005 with only 13 posts but have been a regular visitor and got a lot of value from what I have read from this site. I have not contributed to the D/B as in the eara I mostly drive being norfolk I have not come across many unreported sites. Thoses few I have at the time have been unable to report the info due to time and situation If I could get the POI thingy to work then I would update the sites in my area.
So my offer here is if there is another site starting up it will have my full support and I would update the sites that I know of in my area, just get in touch with me.
Providing both a pay as you download and a subscription model would probably work best.
This BB software is perfectly capable of providing polls if the option is selected by the administrator. So I think the site owner should do so and find out what people want.
I agree with this in principle, but again - my main concern is that the readers have voluntarily supplied the information to be shared amongst all the users. The charge is really being made for information which someone else has provided gratis.
I have no doubt that despite the overwhelming number of posts indicating that a charge is not the most favoured option - we are going to have a charge imposed whatever. It's a fast buck to be made.
I personally wouldn't see the point in paying £24 pa when the number of cameras are now static. I'd probably only download once a quarter if the charges come in - or look for another site that would provide the same information free of charge, which I have no doubt will spring up once the charging structure is imposed here.
some think they have a divine right to have it for nowt
im happy to pay and support advancement and better future databases
as you say - dont like it, dont buy it
What advancement and improvement in the database are you thinking of? You can't honestly see someone from GPSW going out monthly and checking each and every camera location in the UK and Europe can you? They are still going to have to rely on the information provided by the readers of the site at no cost.
All that will happen is another site will start to provide a similar download with the information provided by the readers at no cost.
I have only been using GPS and this database for a couple of weeks. I noticed that a popular hang out for the speed camera van (at least twice a month) just round the corner from my home is not in this database, send me £10 and I will upload it's position, you are not having my information for free and then charging me to get it back!!
The other thing which is fairly clear from this - despite the original statement that
Quote:
the overwhelming majority of the 100s that completed the form agreed that a charge of £2.00 per download was reasonable.
It seems fairly clear that there are a greater majority who can appreciate the point of being charged for the download when members themselves have created the database.
I suppose it's all to do with the way the question was worded:
1) Do you want to pay £2 per download or £30 per year?
What would your answer be?
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 175 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:
martike wrote:
It seems to me that there are three types of users here, each group having its own requirements and preferences.
1. Contributors to the database who are upset that THEIR database is now going to make a profit for someone else. They have a legitimate beef and I think there are two ways to work it out : allow them to continue to have the database free (already offered, I think), or allow them a regular share of the income generated.
2. Visitors to the site who’ve profited from a free database without ever having contributed to it, but are upset about having to pay for it in future. They have no argument. They should be pleased they’ve had it so good for so long and now accept that if they want to retain access to a valuable resource then they’re just going to have to pay for it. The only valid discussion is on the cost and payment model.
3. Visitors to the site who have no interest at all in the database. Whatever the final outcome of all this may be, please don’t forget these people. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the database is the be-all-and-end-all of PGPSW. Many of us will want to continue to use the other features of this site without having to pay for a database we don’t want !
… and I make no apology for posting on Christmas Day because it gives me the opportunity to wish everyone Happy Christmas !!
There's a fourth type - those that have made donations in the belief that the database was free and would remain free. I think they, espacially any that have donated between the meeting and the start of this thread, have been badly mis-led.
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 175 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:
Personally, I don't have a problem with someone making a buck or two out of a good idea, it's called entrepreneurship. Where I DO have a problem is where someone tries to make a buck out of someone else's work (like those selling this database on eBay ) and this database was undoubtedly built on the back of free contributions from the public. I know this issue has been addressed by the mods but I would like to see some positive feedback for their solution from those who have contributed (both camera locations and donations).
I also think there are some issues that have not yet been addressed:
1. The Sale of Goods Act requires the goods to be 'fit for purpose'. There are, already, a number of commercial databases out there (eg the Road Angel) how do they deal with this issue?
2. Quality of data. The mods have indicated there are organisations that can scour the country for cameras and thus the database will be better, but how do we know that it will be any better? Ie, how do we know it is going to be worth paying money for?
3. There have been a number of posts regarding the government's intention to cut down on the number of cameras but, as I recall, whilst they may cut down on some of the 'revenue earners' they are relaxing the rules on where a camera can be sited which implies an incease (or at least a re-distribution). So we are going to need a database such as this for a while yet.
4. From the amount of heat that this thread has generated I would bet that there are enough people who feel sufficiently annoyed to start some sort of legal proceedings, either for illegal use of freely contributed data or because the data is not fit for purpose. Whether or not they win, PGPSW is going to have to spend time and money defending itself which is going to disadvantage everybody.
It seems to me, therefore, that the best solution is for PGPSW to charge a membership fee and make the database available free to members. I suppose you could have a monthly membership to cover those who want to pay on a per-download basis but I would guess that that is going to be fairly admin intensive.
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: [b]Charging models ... food for thought ...[/b]
MarkHewitt wrote:
While I don't object to a charging model I think charging £2.00 PER DOWNLOAD is a massive, massive, massive mistake on the part of PocketGPS world.
One of the most important things is to be able to keep your camera database up to date, charging per download would massively discourage this. Instead of updating once a month I'll update once every 6 months, if that. It would also discourage me from providing any updates.
I would strongly recommend a year long subscription model, a price of say £20 for a year would be fair.
The current charging model is about the worst possible way you could have done it
Now coming late on into this discussion I have to say I do believe you should have a charge as the advantages of having an up to date database that minimises the risk of a Fixed Penalty Fines, points on your licence and lets you know potential areas where you could run someone over (apparently speed cameras are there to protect the public and not fill the treasury coffers) are too good to be true ...
I have always appreciated the efforts that have gone into updating thousands of point data and collating new data sent in by users.
A few people feel aggrieved paying for information they have helped to supply ... but ... hosting the database, collecting the info and ratifying the locations of cameras by cross referencing with other users does deserve some payment.
But at the same time I agree with Mark's point ...
I would be happy to pay but not per download ... Once you sign up for a years membership you should be entitled to unlimited down loads. You pay for the privilege.
Gone are the days where you acquire internet services based on per second billing ... With the advent of broadband one just pays a monthly or yearly charge for unlimited access ... Why go backwards with this charging model??
Saying that, I can be unhappy all day long, if I have no alternative then I will just pay, miserable, kicking and screaming but, pay I would.
In the interest of keeping the masses happy
I think there should be alternative to your charges ... that is if you actually care ... 8)
1) Yearly membership of £12 for unlimited downloads (as a member you may stipulate that this option is open to those that regularly send in camera location info ... say 30 different cameras a year)
2) £5 for unlimited monthly downloads ... for those that do not believe in yearly subscriptions (and cannot provide 30 different camera locations a year)
3) £2 per download
You cannot keep everyone happy.
Personally I do not want to enter my credit card details every time I wish to download information ... I just want an account that enables me to pay once and download whenever I need information without having to worry about keeping track of £2 payments.
Now without being too cynical ...
I am sure whatever payment model is chosen, you will have a demand and I wonder why the discussion is being had at all ... as previously you relied on donations and now you propose a charge that you know people will pay as we have seen the merits of the database therefore are already hooked ... unless there is an alternative free site ...
If the service began as a paying service you would have no reaction as people will just pay as they want the service ... the problem here is ... it started free ...
Thank you to all that have contributed to the database, you've saved me my licence ... keep up the good work ...
The Devil's advocate in me has surfaced ... or the greed ...we live in a capitalist society and personally if it was my site ... I would have charged after the first 6 months ...
Will the Pocket GPS World downloads still be free?
It was suggested that we charged €50 to be 50% cheaper then TomTom, but that goes against our philosophy, so the PocketGPSWorld database will remain as a free resource.
{Referring to people who were selling the PGPSW database commercially (or is it 'professionally'? ;))}
... it is grossly unfair that a small minority think they can profit from our work, spread the word and ensure that everyone knows where to come for the FREE database.
Well, judging by some of the comments in this thread, I'd say the "good word" is now well and truly spread - and not in the way that Darren envisaged, either!
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) and this database was undoubtedly built on the back of free contributions from the public. I know this issue has been addressed by the mods but I would like to see some positive feedback for their solution from those who have contributed (both camera locations and donations).
