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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: Well I'm not for it either....
Simply for this reason - the database has been built by the users of the system, a very noble, social and democratic method of building a community. Ownership therefore could be said to be public domain, regardless of any arguments to the contrary - in fact any user who has contributed and wishes to withdraw their permission to use the contribution could possibly argue therefore.
The site generates huge traffic, presumably a lot looking for links for the camera database. Sponsored links must be earning some revenue, if not enough to cover the download bandwidth then could I suggest the following:
Make the updates available via BitTorrent. Issue a torrent file, within hours it would be seeded by many hosts and the bandwidth would be limited to a few bytes of .torrent file per download, instead of the full database. It belongs to the users so let the users also contribute to the bandwidth. Plenty of open source software is so distributed, the database seems like another suitable candidate.
I would not object to a payment for an annual subscription - just let me know who to ring if the software fails, where I get telephone support if I can't upload the file to my GPS unit, who I sue if it corrupts my GPS etc.
With payment comes liability - I hope you're ready...
... oh, and remember, all it takes is someone with a bit of will to start another database, with a different distribution model, and make it free at the point of download, and on your face, flat, and without a job, you will have fallen.
Surprising at it may seem, neither do I, I think £2 is pretty good value for money, I do close on 45k per year.
That's not the point so much tho' is it ?
Yes i agree with you, i dont think the £2 per month is the main problem, i can fully understand where the members that have contributed to the database are coming from and i can fully understand why they are unhappy about it, they will now be paying for the data they have submitted!
To be honest i don't know what the answer is with this one really, it would be a real shame to see such a good community fall apart because of this, i really do think some sort of middle ground needs to be found, Pocket GPS world seem intent on charging for the database and at the same time possibly destroying years and years of hard work building this site up, surely there must be a way of doing this where everyone can be kept happy?? _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject:
ps73uk wrote:
To be honest i don't know what the answer is with this one really, it would be a real shame to see such a good community fall apart because of this, i really do think some sort of middle ground needs to be found, Pocket GPS world seem intent on charging for the database and at the same time possibly destroying years and years of hard work building this site up, surely there must be a way of doing this where everyone can be kept happy??
Back to my previous post. What would make people happy?
If we come up with some suggestions then perhaps we can achieve this. _________________ Thanks,
Can I just add my tuppence to the "It's my data, I submitted it argument" ?
Well yes, in effect that's right, but remember that, in return you're receiving data for parts of he country you haven't visited. Scameras in unfamiliar areas are the ones most likely to catch you out, so this data from other parts of the community is very valuable.
We are looking at systems that will reward contributors of valid data, subscriptions etc but it's early days.
So it would seem that PGPSW are thinking of rewarding contributors, but as Darren has stated it's early days. _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
Can I just add my tuppence to the "It's my data, I submitted it argument" ?
Well yes, in effect that's right, but remember that, in return you're receiving data for parts of he country you haven't visited. Scameras in unfamiliar areas are the ones most likely to catch you out, so this data from other parts of the community is very valuable.
I'd be willing to pay a small fee for that.
This is a VERY good point _________________ Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
_________________
Paul
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject:
ps73uk wrote:
Raify wrote:
Can I just add my tuppence to the "It's my data, I submitted it argument" ?
Well yes, in effect that's right, but remember that, in return you're receiving data for parts of he country you haven't visited. Scameras in unfamiliar areas are the ones most likely to catch you out, so this data from other parts of the community is very valuable.
I'd be willing to pay a small fee for that.
This is a VERY good point
I agree I find it invaluable in unfamilar areas.........
So to ensure this continues are we saying that we would like to see some incentives for database contributors?
Such as free membership, downloads etc....? _________________ Thanks,
Back to my previous post. What would make people happy?
IMO a membership fee is their safest and a better option, although more complicated, and as members we could have exclusive access to specific parts of the site, competitions or draws to win GPS related hardware/software etc.
with sales, that's essentially what they would be doing... selling us an updated database, comes responsibility, liability and accountability... lots of ility's _________________ SW
Joined: 04/03/2003 21:22:30 Posts: 191 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject:
"What would we like to see?
If we can start answering some of these questions we might just be able to move this forward.
Any suggestions?
Chris Whitwam "
........................................................
I have been following this thread, and yours is the first email I have felt I could respond to.
I well remember the relief we felt when we first found this forum. We were trying to find out about gps equipment and for beginners it is a VERY steep learning curve. We were met with instant friendliness and helpfulness. I would not want anything to stand in the way of beginners having free access to these forums, and so would not want any charges to be introduced that stop punters being able to read the forums. Newbies would realise what a terrific source on information this forum is and inevitably they would have questions to ask, and I think at that point it would be quite in order to have to register/pay for membership in order to ask a question.
Of course, this alone would not generate the scale of income envisaged, but I just felt I wanted to make the point that I would be very sorry to see free access to reading the forums denied.
If only a question like Chris has introduced could have been put to the forum by the mods as a starting point. A discussion on how to generate funds would have been far more positive.
Joined: 13/03/2003 16:01:39 Posts: 46 Location: 'Up a big 'ill int Yorkshire', U.K.
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:
I have nothing but praise for the person who thought of setting up the database and would gladly pay £10-£20 pa for access to the 'Members Only' area of the website (if that would be the way the 'owners' choose) but I would not like the pay per download as it implies I am paying for something others have given freely. I do recognise that the amount of work that is put into maintaining the site (thanks Richard).
Anyway my twopenn'orth.
I would be interested in what Dave Burrows has to say. _________________ ______________________________________
PDA Current: iPAQ hx4700 + Co-Pilot Live/TomTom 2, 3 & 5 + Fortuna Clip-On + 512Mb Ultra ii SD + 256Mb SD + Brodit Active Mount
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:
soweezy wrote:
chris_w wrote:
Back to my previous post. What would make people happy?
IMO a membership fee is their safest and a better option, although more complicated, and as members we could have exclusive access to specific parts of the site, competitions or draws to win GPS related hardware/software etc.
with sales, that's essentially what they would be doing... selling us an updated database, comes responsibility, liability and accountability... lots of ility's
yeah and lots of able's too... dependable, reliable etc.....
So a member ship fee with a specific members area - I like the sound of that.
What content could be put in there?
my suggestion would be some specialst support pages which are monitored on a very regular basis by PGPSW experts (more than the current site) and some updated POI files.
Can I just add my tuppence to the "It's my data, I submitted it argument" ?
Well yes, in effect that's right, but remember that, in return you're receiving data for parts of he country you haven't visited. Scameras in unfamiliar areas are the ones most likely to catch you out, so this data from other parts of the community is very valuable.
I'd be willing to pay a small fee for that.
This is a VERY good point [/b]
I agree I find it invaluable in unfamilar areas.........
So to ensure this continues are we saying that we would like to see some incentives for database contributors?
Such as free membership, downloads etc....?
The point I was trying to make, is that contributing to the database shouldn't necessarily mean being exempt from paying for it. You're still receiving more information than you're providing.
Let's face it, the one's that you know about, you would slow down for anyway. It's the one's you're unfamiliar with that catch you out.
That's my view anyway, as a relative noob to all this POI gubbins. and a recent donator to PGSPW.
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 628 Location: West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:
Buffy Beagle wrote:
If only a question like Chris has introduced could have been put to the forum by the mods as a starting point. A discussion on how to generate funds would have been far more positive.
Buffy :0)
Thanks for that buffy
From you post I gather you would like to see some free forums continue - I totally agree they have been a source of great help to more than a few of us.
Perhaps some of the more specialist content could be put in a members area?
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