Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

[Darren]

Apologies for the lateness of this reply, we have been considering our response.

To address some points:

We did expect a lot of negative response on the forums, however this was the opposite of what we found with the Basingstoke event survey.

Several posters are making assumptions about what others on the forum will do and many are making assumptions about what the industry will think. We have spoken to many senior representives/owners of GPS corporations and every one so far, without exception or hesitation, thought we should charge.

Many think we should have been charging a long time ago. We therefore have the support of the industry at large.

Some are also introducing made up facts and figures about our organisation, advertisers and visitors. Many seem to be taking all figures quoted as facts. We haven't spotted one correct figure that has been stated yet.

Remember also that it's the administration time of the site as a whole that is the real issue. The database does contribute to the traffic, but it is less than 10%. The bandwidth issue is related to both the database and the site as a whole.

Readers who wish not to pay will always have more inclination to post than those who are willing to pay or those on the fence. A 'call-to-action' poll on the back of a rally cry for action can never be a reflection of the real attitude of the majority. Not only can the poll be manipulated by deleting cookies, but I suspect the results will be skewed by the dissatisfied who would be more inclined to vote.

I remember that Dave Burrows (Dave used to be our Editor in Chief before chaging jobs) said on the forums that the intention was to keep the database free, but I never recall that any of us said that we would never charge for it. As Mr Rusty has kindly pointed out...

<quote>
I am sure when the original "It will remain free" statement was made, it was made in good faith, but running a site like this takes time and effort, and it is inevitable when a site becomes successful that the time and effort eventually exceeds the time available as a "hobby".
</quote>

...it actually passed that stage a long time ago and we have been putting off the inevitable.

Because we have used the word 'professional' some are accusing of us of not saying what we mean, i.e that we are going to be commercial. We have been commercial for over 2 years now and certainly have not hid it (the adverts are a clear indication of our commercial status).

It will not be impossible to independently check the locations. Many companies already check outdoor sites - albeit not cameras - and report on existing and new (usually competitors) sites. Think 10's of thousands of outdoor advertising posters, most checked weekly, others monthly. The level to which we use such a company will depend on the need and level of commercial success of the database.

We will be collecting the data ourselves in addition to the many who have indicated (publicly and privately) that they will continue to support our efforts. We do expect a drop in voluntary submissions in the short term and we of course acknowledge the points made about goodwill, but believe that hundreds will still contribute data freely.

We are VERY confident that the database will not only survive, but also improve in quality. This is indeed one of the driving aims behind introducing the download fee.

We also have big plans next year to make PocketGPSWorld.com even more of an authority in the industry than it is already. This obviously costs money. We have been taking it steady over the last couple of years, but are starting to get squeezed by commercial companies. Rest assured that no matter what, we will retain our independence.

We have taken on board any contructive criticism on the thread, thank you. Also a big thank you to all who sent private messages and calls of support over the last 2 days including the following: "All of the people I have spoken to at work today think the 2 pound charge is more than acceptable, that's about 30 people I know of that use TT sat nav - they will all continue to use the service."

Due to the repetition of points being made over the last 24 hours and with some of the remarks being of a personal nature we have decided to close this thread shortly.

PS. The assumption that the last database was the last free one was incorrect.

The PocketGPSTeam
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Darren Griffin

[Wishlist]

[iankb]

[Darren]

[Darren]

[alan_sh]

Darren,

Our posts seem to have crossed - did you look at my suggestions?

Alan

[Oldie]

[alan_sh]

Oops - crossed posts again !

Alan

[Simon1]

I can't keep up with all the pages of replies so here's my thoughts for what they're worth....

It's obvious that the success of the database has led people to this site and has made it as successful and popular as it is. The problem that has become obvious from reading what I have is that I and quite a few others regard it a little rich to be asking us to pay for a DB that we ourselves are contributing to. Should there be some sort of payment or discount to those of us who provide new info? I think that would make us feel that our input is worthwhile and would allow many of us to feel it is worth adding more cameras to the DB.

The problem as it stands is this: The DB is hugely successful because we all contribute to it and in turn we get something out of it. I have pulled over a number of times to mark a new camera as a favourite so I can later email the details on as have so many others. No, the DB is not perfect, but neither is a 'paid for' one either. However I feel that with any backlash, the DB will itself become less accurate as fewer of us provide info to it. This in turn will make it less of an attraction (especially when you have to pay for it) and the reSult could be a snowball effect whereby the popularity and success of this site and the DB steadily drops.

In a nutshell, I think by charging, PGPSW could be signing its own death warrant.

No-one that I can tell has actually asked for the DB to be MORE accurate by way of physical checks, etc. For crying out loud, Teleatlas do physical checks and see how poor some of their map info is! I think the majority of us feel that the accuracy is pretty good and is a constant reminder to be aware of cameras. If I start to pay for essentially the same (or perhaps a worse) product, then I am going to feel a lot less sympathetic to those putting it together than I am when I know they are volunteers. I couldn't give a stuff about Microsoft and their feelings, but some keen programmer who comes up with a bit of shareware will get and deserve all the support others can give him.

Where does all the money from advertising go to? Why do you guys feel that you NEED to grow? Why not simply contain what you have or ask for a few more volunteers? I'm sorry but I do smell a bit of a rat here.

So basically, charge away for the DB, but don't be surprised if this all backfires on you. I think this is a dangerous move (unless you are hoping to sell the site some day for a tidy sum) and one that will take it from a well-run bunch of volunteers to possibly a less popular one run for profit.

[ps73uk]

Well, i've been following this thread with interest and i thought it was now time for me to comment.
I have contributed to the camera database in the past and will continue to do so even when the database has to be paid for, Pocket GPS do a fantastic job and to be honest £2 a month for what i feel is probably the best database out there is not a lot really.

The staff at Pocket GPS world always have had and as far as i'm concerned always will continue to get my support.

The only suggestion i would like to add is would it be possible that we could pay for the database with a yearly subscription as well as the £2 a month option??
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Garmin Streetpilot i3,
Tomtom One
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Paul

[james_uk9]

[Darren]

[Darren]

[Darren]

[Calligrapher]

I too would be reasonably happy to pay an annual subscription to become a member of your 'club' with the priviledges that that might bring - a regularly updated camera database being a strong incentive. I think that you may get away with that but to charge per download or purely for per access to the database would be counterproductive and poor marketing. Give a cash-contributing member some incentive to pay - exclusive forums, up to date info and a sense of belonging and contributing would create goodwill rather than antagonism. As a yorkshireman, I 'like owt for nowt', but if it is a case of 'pay up or we shut up' AND it can be properly justified, then if I must then I will pay to be a member of a club that serves me well.

Charge to be a member if you must - do not charge for the database.

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