Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

TheBoyGroucho · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject:

I do hope the Pocketgps team have taken legal advise on this matter, as I have now been informed by a solicitor that there are breach of contract issues here.
Basically in the original discussion about setting up the camera database the written understanding was that the forum members would supply the GPS co-ordinate information on the written declaration that it would always be supplied without charge. Any attempt to now charge for this information is a breach of contract. (Before any armchair lawyers put in their 10 pense worth you might want to first check on the legal position within English Contract law).
I am still waiting for the firms copyright expert to come back to me on with his opinion on who, if anybody, has the copyright on the data contained within the database and who, if anybody, may have the rights to exploit it...though it does seem a moot point given the breach of contract issue.

jguiver · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject:

I am a relative newcomer to this community, and am grateful for the help I have received from the administrators and other contributors, without which I would probably still be trying to find out how to get my Mio 168 to talk to it's GPS receiver. I hope I have also been able to help a couple of posters, and will continue to do so if I can.

The speed camera database was a bonus. I never expected it to be perfect. I downloaded it because it was there, and it was something else to play with. Had there been a charge, I probably wouldn't have bothered. I still managed to get a ticket anyway, and that's my own fault. As others have said, if you don't want a ticket, don't speed. I won't bore you with my perceived mitigating circumstances!

We have all paid hundreds of pounds for our systems, yet £2pm for a database download causes such extreme reactions, so it can't be about the money. I think it's akin to receiving a letter from your NHS dentist, advising that he's going private.

It's just another thing that's designed to p*** you off!

Have a good Christmas, everyone, and let's keep things in perspective.

While we're all pontificating about £2pm, there are people out there who have more important things to worry about. If you don't want to pay for the database for whatever reason, give the money to someone who needs it.
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HP rx5935, 2GB SD Card, TTN 6.1, GPSDash

ChrisCubed · Occasional Visitor Joined: Feb 01, 2005 Posts: 28

Disapointing.

Let down.

Used.

Greed.

All these words and more sum up my feelings on PGPSW's announcement to start charging for what was always touted to remain as a free database.

Everything I could say has already been said in the preceding pages. However I will say just a couple of things.

1) I firmly believe PGPSW are making a huge mistake and are effectively shooting themselves in the foot. Run a poll that has 'Will you continue to contribute to the database after the chare is in place?' with Yes and No answers and see what happens. The majority will vote No. Your contributions will drop drastically. Virtually fact.

2) There is no real reason why PGPSW would charge for our database other then greed. They have finally plucked up the balls to start charging for it. Something they could have done at any time, I guess it has now come to the point where they fully realise how much potential money they could make and greed has taken over. The issue of bandwidth has never been a problem for this site in all the years its been in operation. I don't believe for a second it has anything to do with bandwidth or hosting costs. £2 from every user every month, PGPSW will be rich beyond belief! I only wish they had the guts to admit they are making this move to make money primarily.

Alas, if it is the decision they wish to make then so be it. Nothing we say will change their minds now that they realise how much money they can make.

The only good that will come out of this is that as one great free database falls, another will rise. Watch as more sites pop up offering free user contributed databases. It will only take one to become popular enough and the focus will soon shift from PGPSW to this new site.

PGPSW are naive if they think that there databases won't now start appearing on P2P sites and applications. What will they do about that? Major companies, games developers, music industry etc. have failed to combat this, what hope would PGPSW have? They wouldn't. You'll still be able to get the PGPSW free every month through these mediums, you watch.

And my final comment on this.

Know this PGPSW, you yourselves, are now no different to the robbing eBay sellers who continue to sell the database on eBay. Do not deny or believe for a second you are doing anything different.

trevor.dowle · Lifetime Member Joined: 16/06/2003 05:22:14 Posts: 412

flinty99 · Lifetime Member Joined: Jun 07, 2004 Posts: 9

monsta45 · Occasional Visitor Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 48

when i had an old bluemedia unit i had POI warner on it, POI Handler only charge £8pa for their service inc speed cams??! does anyone know how acurate this is compared to the service here? its if as good, which to honest i cant tell either way, then just use them instead!

http://www.poihandler.com/

Exclamation

mfuller · Occasional Visitor Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 20

trevor.dowle · Lifetime Member Joined: 16/06/2003 05:22:14 Posts: 412

OK MikeB - You opened this can of worms 2 days ago, and most of what can be said, has been said by now.

It REALLY is time that we had some sort of response from you, and your 'partners in crime'.

After all silence is not what someone who wants to be our 1st full timer should be displaying right at the moment, and it inspires absolutely no confidence whatsoever.
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Regards

Trev Dowle
TomTom 730 T

RangerRanger · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 3

You got a cheek, you now plan to charge for downloading the safety cam database, this information was provided by volunteers who if they know that you were going to make a profit from their work would not have contributed their information to you in the first place, and what about the people who have made donations to you? you have given both these supporters a kick in the face, I am sure that users of this site would have the legal right to stop you doing this, I suggest all users band together, especially those who have donated money to this site and all who have sent contributions of cam locations and take legal action against you to:

1: Stop you doing this.

2: seek a share in your profits from this venture!

I certainly wont be downloading you cam data any longer, time to move on to a professional cam location provider, just as well now use and pay for the official TomTom cam data.

I do not object to you making money from this site to pay for the services you have, but you have deliberately set out to obtain the cam data from volunteers with out any cost, and now it is built up to an acceptable standard you feel you can charge the very people who provided the information to you in the first place.

I would be interested in what the press have to say about this? I will be passing this information on!

the_kick_inside · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 28, 2004 Posts: 7

I too have my reserrvations about paypal there are some real horror stories out there o nthe web about them so i think you have to provide alternative ways of paying.

I also agree that 'per download' pricing just doesnt make sense - both practically in that i discourages people form bott downloading and also updating the database and also in that your making a rod for your own back in managing it and possibly the cost of collection.

The amount is really pretty immaterial (providing reasonable) in that we have all shelled out at least a couple of hundred quid on devices, we all run cars, we all want to avoide £60 an three point...come on lets be seriosu £20,£25 or £50 a year is pretty immaterial.

I can see there will always be some people who want to download twice a year and want a 'pay as you go' service - but commercially they are expensive to support so they SHOULD pay more for this (you will have some cost per transaction however you handle the money).

I can see most of us will be happiest paying anuually (this also represents a cost effective method for the ocmpany as it represents a lower 'bought in' cost in transaction handling and also lower admin effort).

Personnaly i think the two teir method of 'pay as you go' and 'annual contract' represents the way forward - as long as its isnt paypal - and i really dont care if its £20 or £25 a year etc.

All that said the database MUST be improved for non tom-tom users if you wantott be considered 'professional' - there must be one hell of a lot of medion users out there (think of all those Aldi and halfords and Makro customers) and the support frankly is not up to 'professional' standards for us! It doesnt matter when its free - it does when your charging for it!

I know this has mostly been said in other posts but i think your asking for contributuions to asses reaction....

So for me i have no probs paying but the service will have to improve for medion and i want to pay annually non paypal....

WiRED · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject:

Schouten · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject:

Extract from one PGPSW Bio

Hobbies include aviation, cars, motorcycles and many more! When not fixing networks he can be found gazing at aircraft and praying for the funds to allow him to pursue his dream of re-gaining his pilot's license which lapsed when his daughter arrived or practicing on MS Flight Sim

Hmmm...............

Andy_P · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject:

I feel sorry for Richard (Oldie) in all this. He's put in a huge amount of work, altruistically, not expecting reward other than the thanks of the subscribers, and now he is included in all this flak, whether he's changed his mind or not.

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Andy (part owner of a very fine thing, soon to be taken away)

WinnebagoNut · Occasional Visitor Joined: May 10, 2004 Posts: 5

I really hope it's NOT history repeating itself http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ Crying or Very sad

. Atb Derek.

flinty99 · Lifetime Member Joined: Jun 07, 2004 Posts: 9

At the end of the day, PGPSW have now shot themselves in the foot, and probably have no other option now but to try and charge for the database.

Given what has now happened, how many of the people out there who have generously donated in the past to PGPSW will do so in the future even if this decision is reversed? Very few I would imagine!!

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