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I think you may need to offer alternatives: £2.00 per download seems reasonable, as does a £20 unlimited download annual fee. Both should be offered. Price needs to be such that no-one else will see undercutting you as profitable. Too much and another amateur will decide to do it himself, possibly for free.
One of the speed detector companies (INFORAD) offers lifetime updates for £50.
What you also need to do, for the £2.00 a time people, is to give some indictation of how much the database has changed over time. At £2 a time some people will not want to download every change, lets face it the database is now changing relatively slowly, most existing cameras already being on the list and new ones being installed less frequently.
So with each update there should be a list: x cameras added, y cameras deleted, and this list should cover all the previous releases. People will not want to pay £2.00 if the database has only changed by 2 cameras, several hundred miles from where they live.
Payment options need to be flexible, Paypal, cheque, etc etc
Nao _________________ Too many people "search for the zero inside themselves". Sadly, many fail to find even that.
I think if you start to charge for the information - then you are likely to get fewer people report speed cameras to you so that you can make a profit on their work. This will entail the database becoming out of date and unworkable - leading to fewer people downloading it.
It would then be a short time before you reached the situation of no updates and no-one downloading it as the info was not correct.
I know that you have mentioned about the cameras being checked - but let's face it, there is no way that you are going to be able to have all the cameras in the UK and overseas checked on a monthly basis for this - are you?
and of course people will expect greater accuracy. Reading through these posts there is a worrying trend suggestion of cameras being removed that are still on site. I suppose malicious anti database campaigners could be doing this?
But if cameras are checked, before being removed from the database, as part of the professionalism, then we all gain.
Nao _________________ Too many people "search for the zero inside themselves". Sadly, many fail to find even that.
I apologise if this has been suggested already, but I thought I would give my 2 cents anyway.
From what I see here PGPSW want to make some money from the speed camera database and the people who have contributed to it are rather miffed that it looks like we will now have to pay for what we give for free.
Plus there is the additional problem that it appears some unscrupulous people are taking the database file anyway and selling it on ebay.
PGPSW, why don’t you sell it on ebay, undercutting the people doing it today? That way you get some money to cover the your costs from the people who are willing to pay for the database link and the members of the PGPSW who have contributed to the database today get to keep the downloads for free.
I know that you have mentioned about the cameras being checked - but let's face it, there is no way that you are going to be able to have all the cameras in the UK and overseas checked on a monthly basis for this - are you?
Hypothetically, what if say a bunch of select members around the country had already been approached about supplying updates to camera sites throughout the country? This would alleviate this problem.
There may be some financial incentive for them to do this?
One last thought, and I contribute it more as a discussion point rather than a suggestion.
You mighty consider making all NEW membership pay a one-off fee, which would include the camera database. Existing members , many of whom have contributed to the database, and to the site in general, would have no charge. Satnav is taking off in a stratospheric way ( sorry) and I suspect membership may quadruple this year. So there is a fee source, without any upset to existing members.
Nao _________________ Too many people "search for the zero inside themselves". Sadly, many fail to find even that.
I know that you have mentioned about the cameras being checked - but let's face it, there is no way that you are going to be able to have all the cameras in the UK and overseas checked on a monthly basis for this - are you?
Hypothetically, what if say a bunch of select members around the country had already been approached about supplying updates to camera sites throughout the country? This would alleviate this problem.
There may be some financial incentive for them to do this?
Maybe they are the guys who were polled at the meet?
As said before these multitudes seem strangely quiet.
Wouldn't it be great to have a 'web' version of the database (possibly built with PHP & mySQL)
Where updates/additions/deletions can be given by form input. These then go through a verification process (either by other contributors or specific moderators - I think musicbrainz.org does a similar thing with album/track entries).
By using some php scripting to query the DB you should be able to get:
- camera locations in specific areas (big or small) say for your local area or for example the whole of Scotland.
- cameras of a specific type
- cameras added/updated/even deleted after a certain date (when you last downloaded)
- any combination of the above
- all the selected camera locations in a download in a specified format (all done by server scripting - select format, click button, pay and download)
The payment model can then be automatically tiered depending on how many cameras are in the file (obviously example cameras):
0-50 cameras = £x
50-100 cameras = £y
ALL cameras = £z
These costs should be adjusted if you are a successful contributor to the db.
There could be read only access to the database to check if a camera exists in the db already
Having the whole thing online and searchable means
- you can see if the area you are interested in has updates
- you only download what you require
- less downloading(bandwidth) and finding no updates that you are interested in
- for the most part, each download will be a subset, hence smaller
- payment will also take into account that you get the data in your required format
Obviously this will take some setting up but once that's done, it 'should' be self running.
Please shoot me down if you wish, I am just giving my thoughts and ideas.
Please also note I have not yet got my TTG (fingers crossed xmas pressie) so I have not used or contributed to the speed cam db.
I may not be a serial poster on these forums, but I can honestly say that I spend a fair bit of time checking out this site everyday. I am therefore dismayed at the apparent lack of thought that has gone into the commercialization of the camera database.
Ever since I have been using this site, the boast has always been the database would remain free. I have lost count how many friends, family and work colleagues that I’ve installed this onto their TomTom based PDAs or Go. They are always grateful and even more so when they’re informed that it’s available for free and, more importantly, updated regularly. We all have a laugh at the uninitiated out there that pay for the thing from the likes of Ebay etc and gain some satisfaction when we show them the error of their ways in wasting their money.
The PGPSW database is a sort of camera site co-operative, ran by like minded enthusiasts and everyone is happy that they’re considered part of this useful service. When I see a plug on The Gadget Show or Fifth Gear, I think “Yup, been using and recommending it for ages.”
It’s disappointing then to learn of the intention to charge for what has in effect been supplied through the camaraderie of the end user. I personally don’t agree with the cost, whether it was a £2 or £20 a month charge, it’s just the principal of paying for something that wouldn’t exist without the members involvement. Sure, if and when the charge does come in, new members will never know what we enjoyed before.
I’m sure everyone appreciates the time that PGPSW put into collating the information, but I think it will be a sad day for all if you implement such changes when from what I’ve read so far, so many people, like myself, take the time out to voice their disapproval.
Also, by checking a 'submitted by' field, if all cameras in a specific download were submitted by the 'requesting' person then that download could be free, hence giving the submitter free access to all those he submitted.
If the download contained others then the 'requestors' cameras can be deducted from the total giving a lower cost band.
Having had a night to take this all in some more scenarios enter the nogging.
Many of us have come up with ways of structuring a payment system etc, obviously from our side this is a vital part of any impending change.
Unfortunately i do not see it the same from the other side.
I feel it has been seen as a cash cow, not just the database, but the whole damn shamozzle. Mr Barrett sees himself as the sole initial beneficiary, who next? before we know it the whole operation will be bankrolled by us for doing something "we love as a hobby". I have been thinking about if i know of anybody with Mikes credentials who can just give up there job and take on their hobby (which i assume is still enjoyable) and still pay the bills for the lifestyle they already have.
The fact that these people have worked hard to bring PGPSW to what it is today obviously presents an opportunity to do this but to use the Database as the vehicle for the cash flow is morally and ethically wrong.
Alas, in todays world morals and ethics are seen as just words in a dictionary.
At the end PGPSW will do what they like, no doubt, it is a pity that, again in my opinion things cannot and will never be the same.
Somethings in this world are priceless, yet they cost nothing, two that spring to mind in this instance are cameraderie and goodwill.
Also, by checking a 'submitted by' field, if all cameras in a specific download were submitted by the 'requesting' person then that download could be free, hence giving the submitter free access to all those he submitted.
That info could also be used to identify those who falsely attempt to have cameras removed from the database and to ignore there future postings ... ! _________________ - - - - - - - - -
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