Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

julianbarker · Lifetime Member Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 431

I have not got the time to read all 20 pages of this - so sorry if this has been mentioned a million times - which it probably has -

I understand the problems of running a service like this, and can see where funding might be important - but £2 a download? How is this to be managed? I use POIEdit to download and plan to keep doing so a it it allows me to ensure that when I want to travel all my POIs are up to date. A download fee seems a strange and complex way of doing this. A one off fee of £10 a year for access seems fair reasonable and affordable.

If the database is going chargable I have three questions that need posting on the front page of the site -

1) Who pockets the profits as the database is constructed by the contributions of the users?

2) Why should I contribute new sightings on my regular routes? I know they are there - why should I help someone else make money from my knowlege?

3) Who elected the 750 people who attended the event and thought download payments was a good idea?

I could have gone, but had other things to do that weekend and would have voted for a moderate one off payment if it is really necessary to charge. Howver, as soos nas this is charged, I know what will happen as I have seen it elsewhere on tech forums that suddenly impose charges - people will form sindicates that will pay one fee and share the data and wil probably use your forums to organise them. The weay to avoid that is by charging a one off fee and providing a range of premium services for those that pay. For example, people can't club together to post on the forum.

Unplugged · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject:

SouthHams · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject:

smstextaddict · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject:

I rarely post on here, but im half against it, yes i can understand charging for it but considering its once a month for an update, where as others like road angel are at least once a week if not every day it can be out of date.

£20 annual i think is a no no, £10 would be better, I have contributed towards the database as i felt that as i knew of locations locally that were not on the database and felt it was right to contribute in the fact i reported them so anyone in my area for any reason would be warned and hopefully they would return the favour by reporting locations they know that have not yet been added.

I do beleive by charging people will think less of reporting a camera to if its free, if you started to financially reward people who reported camera locations, then i could see that being abused.

But anyhow thats my moan and at the same time i would like to thank the PGW team for all the hard work they put into the database.

Unplugged · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:06 am Post subject:

ramh2o · Occasional Visitor Joined: Dec 16, 2005 Posts: 5

Its simple! Drive to the Law you will not need any speedcam poi's therefore you would not have to pay anything.
I always thought that this was a bit of fun!

ChrisM · Occasional Visitor Joined: Jan 04, 2005 Posts: 9

I've just spent an hour reading all 21 pages of this. Notwithstanding the issue about how long it takes to assemble the data, convert it into different formats, the work involved in running the site, or even whether 2 quid is reasonable or not - something just doesn't seem right here. People contributed reports - and you stated frequently that the database was, and always would be free. I'm sorry guys - but what you're doing (in attempting to make a commercial income from mostly freely provided and volunteered data) - seems unethical. You haven't stated it's purely a cost covering exercise. The majority view from these posts seems to be that it's intended to deliver a profit. I've no objection in you trying to make money - but I have a big problem in that you've changed the goalposts, and haven't sought the approval of everyone who has submitted reports and updates to see whether they mind their information being used in that way.

What about this for a suggestion? Do what the open source community does in this situation, and 'fork the codebase'. Open source the database as at 31st December. Make it freely available in a standard form (lat/long, OV2 or whatever) and then split it. In that way, any individuals who wish to try to maintain and enhance a community database can do so by using the 31st December data as a starting point - and you can effectively compete with Tom-Tom etc, by producing your own maintained/validated/researched commercial offering at whatever price point you choose.

As it is, I think think you've just scored a massive own goal.

Chris

cantgetlost · Frequent Visitor Joined: Nov 14, 2005 Posts: 291

Many of us here joined a free to use site, and offer our own advice and experiences and sent in speed camera data.
I like others have donated via pay pal to help with costs, now the guys that run the site decide to try and make it into a commercial business. The forums and feed back posted FOC make the whole operation gel.
If they want to make a living from speed cam data base fine.
But they have used and abused others good will, they have used mine and others money to fund setting up a business with no consent given by me and many many others who have been forum members a lot longer than I.
They are taking and using contributor's "intellectual property" and have made no indication that they were planning to turn the site or part there of into a commercial business.
I understand that they are ON TRICKY GROUND at best. It really is a shoddy way to treat people and they do not even seem to be answering peoples questions or requests.
Six - twelve months notice re intention would have been one thing. Just launching it on an unknowing forum comes across as poor business practice.
This has obviously been in planning for some time and no consultation of the vast numbers registered on the forum has been sought to my knowledge.
Does the charge for the database cover good legal representation ?
I feel we are at liberty to demand some sort of recompense for our intellectual property in the form of forum posts to all be removed prior to part of the site being commercialised, and people who have provided free database detail to be paid for their input and for all donations to be returned!!!!

gareth71 · Regular Visitor Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 146

I can't help but wonder one thing ...

In the original post, it was stated that "many" of the 750 visitors to the Basingstoke meet had been polled on this, and had expressed their approval. The implication of that "many" is that several hundred PGPSW members and contributors, who are sufficiently keen and dedicated to attend a meet, are in favour of the proposed charges. If that's the case, where are they now? Surely, if they're that keen and dedicated, they can't be unaware of the existence of this topic on the forum? Of the minority who've posted to this thread in a positive way, were any of them among the "many" who were allegedly polled at the meet?

COLINRG · Regular Visitor Joined: Mar 02, 2005 Posts: 91

Isn't the information the intellectual property of the persons submitting the information. How can the database which is made up of information supplied by others belong to PGPSW. If we all claim for the camera locations we have added or amended the database would fall apart!!!

Just something PGPSW might want to think about.

AlanK · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:16 am Post subject:

almost 21pgs of 15 per pages . 315 posts on one topic... nice!! :P

Kirium · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:16 am Post subject:

Hi Guys,

Just a quick one, just how much in total are we talking here ?? £120,000.00 p.a has been mooted by some, by my reckoning thats 5000 downloads a month or approx 160 a day. These figures may/may not be high or low, we have no idea, how about some transparency with the figures ???

If we are to believe, as suggested, this charge is to cover time & bandwidth lets look at the sums:

As no info seems to be forthcoming we'll have a guesstimate, say £4800pa for bandwidth ? heck lets make it £5,000.00. How about another £10,000.00pa for travelling and expenses and another £5000.00pa for hotel stopovers whilst your haring around the country checking all these cameras. So thats only £100,000.00pa for "wages" about £8,333.00 per month, or £1900.00 per week or £52.00 an hour, not including the much publicised "explosion" in sales of Sat Nav products in the lead up to Christmas, seeing as the "Free" safety camera database was advertised on Fifth Gear and many suppliers/manufacturers openly advertise the database, i'm sure these figures are quite conservative, as indeed i'm sure PGPSW are hoping too... Seems "The Profiteering must Stop".

As a motorist I'm sick of being fleeced, i thought we had a collection of like minded people here who were interested in helping each other out, not for financial reward but for the cameraderie, just to be nice to like minded people, not to stick their hands out with the rest of 'em for your hard earned....
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AlanK · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:23 am Post subject:

As a motorist I'm sick of being fleeced, i thought we had a collection of like minded people here who were interested in helping each other out, not for financial reward but for the cameraderie, just to be nice to like minded people, not to stick their hands out with the rest of 'em for your hard earned....

Well Said!!

xda · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:06 am Post subject:

tals · Regular Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 66

It might just be Christmas is close and people are winding down/holidays etc. I don't think the membership effect would be as instant as that - particularly as it has not been implemented yet.

Tals

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