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Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: How can I determine which SPECS is which?
In the thread
Quote:
PocketGPSWorld.com release CamerAlert on the iPhone
I asked about the possibility of handling the average speed calculation in SPECS stretches in other applications. I had in mind POI-Warner on Navigon. MaFt replied as in the following post:
MaFt wrote:
BigPerk wrote:
Your database clearly has information in it to permit calculation of average speeds for the specs by the iphone application.
yes, it says 'SPECS' in the camera ID name! the app then knows it is an average speed camera and reacts accordingly. PNA manufacturers could quite easily do this. nav n go do, to some extent, but there system is flawed by the assumption that average speed cameras ALWAYS come in 2's.
BigPerk wrote:
One thing that still confuses me is that there has been a mention in the 'specs' threads of more than just a 'start' and 'end' camera, with interim ones in some cases as well. Maybe I have misunderstood this, but if not does it complicate the turning on/off of the average speed warning particularly?
Yes, we also have 'MIDDLE' cameras... again, this data is available if any manufacturers can be bothered to implement it's use - at present only drivesmart uses this data. in CamerAlert start and middle essentially act the same - i.e. it ensures the auto-average speed is turned on. the END cameras turn off / cancel the averaging. we also have a unique way for the app to detect if you have left a road between specs cameras and thus turn off the average speed automatically. within CamerAlert you can also turn on and off the average speed whenever you wish.
MaFt
I asked navigating.de (POI-Warner developer) about this. They say their application is not designed to support average speed camera handling as such, but that I could get at least some benefit by associating different voice warnings with the different SPECS cameras - I would then at least know when I left a SPECS-controlled stretch. However, I've had a quick look at a SPEC download file and can find no mention of 'START', MIDDLE' or 'END' camera designations within the file - clearly I'm missing something basic here.
I hope all this makes some sense!
So, MY QUESTION please ... So how can I determine which SPECS is which (assuming, as MaFt says the information is in the database somewhere, and that I am allowed to access the information of course)?
Grateful for any advice. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:32 am Post subject:
This is absolute guess on my part, becaused I don't run the database. I would think you could only determine the status (start, mid, end) if you downloaded a data set which included that detail. My TomToms can't use it so it's not included in my download. Drivesmart and iPhone CamAlert can use it, so it's included in those downloads. I would guess that if the data were to be included in downloads for systems which can't use it, it would make the database not work on those systems. Chicken and egg situation (not so, really, as the info is actually available from pgpsw, but unusable by your application - not sure whether you're egg or chicken). TomTom recent devices actually are (or claim to be) capable of this feature (and directional operation too). But they reserve the feature to their own data. If they would allow us to support it, it would be available for recent TomToms probably quicker than you can shake a stick, although I suppose that might mean two different sets of TomTom downloads from pgpsw - one for the older models and one for newer models which could use our average speed and directional data. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject:
Thanks DennisN, I follow your argument about the possible different download formats, and it's certainly true that my POI software doesn't support average-speed calculation, but assumes an ASC-format text file, which is why I use that download format at the moment.
However I can download in other formats (I have to with the other POIs on the site) and adjust first to the required format with POIEdit. What I had expected to see when I did the ASC download was a SPECS file with 'start', 'middle' 'end' indicators which would allow me to split them into separate POI categories with Excel or similar for my device so that I can set up separate warnings. I assumed, wrongly by the looks of it, that the camera 'type' would be shown in the download by adding something like 'START' to the 'SPECS' title, in the same way as compass points such as NW have been - I didn't think they upset systems which ignore the info?
Still, it's just a question of how it's actually been done, and whether 'the team' can suggest a different download format to ASC which DOES contain the info, that I can then edit/format at my end. I assume from what you say that some download formats DO have the info?
Thanks again for your response. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject:
BigPerk wrote:
This may not be the right thread but seems to be the nearest I can find ...
BigPerk... I think your question deserves a topic of its own, so I've split it away from the other discussion and PM'd you with the new link.
(Hope the new title is OK!)
If you weren't aware, you can always start a new topic by clicking on the button "New topic" at the top of any of the index pages for the various forum sections.
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject:
Thanks Andy_P - a new thread does seem to be a good idea, especially now there's a bit more info. I am reluctant to start them - people who clearly can't be asked to check the site for other posts on the same topic just simply fire a new one up, and leave others to run around tracking answers down for them! Also multiple topics sometimes mean having to copy a reply into several places.
Anyway, enough of that!, I checked Drivesmart which DennisN mentioned, and a couple of other formats but with no luck. So I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment until some knowledgeable person comes to my aid (are you there MaFt?)! _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15157 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject:
until there is a device that can use it i'm somewhat reluctant to spend time creating the specific release set that would be required in order to fulfil this.
IF i did then sod's law tells me that if a device was able to use this data then they would need a different format anyway...
as it is, we will not be releasing the specs data except for devices that can use it: CamerAlert (where the download is handled directly within the app) and DriveSmart (which uses a bizarre format anyway and the end specs just have a different id number to the normal specs)
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject:
That's well understood MaFt - I certainly WASN'T looking for a new database. I had just been assuming they would already be added in a similar way to the compass direction info, to be used/ignored as appropriate, and that I could reformat as necessary for my unit.
Anyway, as and when you DO set up the info in a download for a 'spec-enabled' application/device, I would just like to see if I COULD utilise THAT download. If there are any yet I could try them perhaps.
Not a big deal; just could be a little helpful to know I've actually left a SPECS controlled area by detecting an 'END' camera. If I had any money left after buying an iPhone contract, I'd willingly lash out the 59p on top!
Very pleased for PGPSW that you have produced a winner there - Well Done ! Can't BELIEVE the odd petty criticisms you've got - some seem to think it's a failure because of a few extras they think it hasn't got - you spend FAR more on satnavs and software which don't seem anywhere near as professional from what I can see.
Thanks for the quick reply. _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject:
BigPerk wrote:
just could be a little helpful to know I've actually left a SPECS controlled area by detecting an 'END' camera.
Have to admit, I think that would be everyone's preference really.
You just want to know when you enter the zone and when you exit it.
At the moment, I'm staring at the screen looking for another icon on the horizon to try to work out if the one I just passed is the last one.
But when out verifying, I can see what a nightmare it is just to keep track of the cameras at all and when a single gantry can be an exit camera for one lane and a middle camera for another it gets even worse.
So I think what we have is the best of a bad job (until MaFt has a brainwave!)
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:58 am Post subject:
Andy_P wrote:
BigPerk wrote:
just could be a little helpful to know I've actually left a SPECS controlled area by detecting an 'END' camera.
Have to admit, I think that would be everyone's preference really.
You just want to know when you enter the zone and when you exit it.
At the moment, I'm staring at the screen looking for another icon on the horizon to try to work out if the one I just passed is the last one.
Funny - I seem to recall noticing a sort of round thingy with a diagonal black line at the side of the road - goes as a matching pair with one at the beginning, sort of round with a sort of number in it, innit? _________________ Dennis
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:15 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
Funny - I seem to recall noticing a sort of round thingy with a diagonal black line at the side of the road - goes as a matching pair with one at the beginning, sort of round with a sort of number in it, innit?
The specs in roadworks are in the database for people who are not as well sighted as you. Harperson's equality drive for the blind I think that possibly BigPerk's point is where there are specs where there are no roadworks with the aforementioned big signs that you describe
Joined: Mar 01, 2005 Posts: 1513 Location: West Mids
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:26 am Post subject:
M8TJT wrote:
I think that possibly BigPerk's point is where there are specs where there are no roadworks with the aforementioned big signs that you describe
Even so, what's so special about the "last" camera. It's not like the speed limit will change or anything. It's only really important to camera spotters etc.
Ah! _________________ Gerry
TomTom730T
Cameralert for Android
Brodit ProClip mount
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15157 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:05 am Post subject:
indeed gerry. usually after the last specs camera there can be more road at the reduced speed until the speed goes back up to the usual speed...
anyway, it MAY be possible to add 'end' to the camera name in a similar way to how we add the direction data to the camera name. however, this will not be visible on some systems (eg tomtom)...
i'll think about it if you lot promise to scour the submission map and update us with any missing 'end' data as not all the specs are completely covered yet
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:35 am Post subject:
Sorry - I actually thought, from the iPhone discussion, that all this info was already included in the database I hadn't intended to ask for anything new.
But I'm pleased there is a bit of interest. A couple of side comments - DennisN says
Quote:
Funny - I seem to recall noticing a sort of round thingy with a diagonal black line at the side of the road - goes as a matching pair with one at the beginning, sort of round with a sort of number in it, innit? Twisted Evil Laughing
But doesn't that go for all speed limits, including all those where we've got the normal GATSO etc cameras recorded? I thought the whole point was that people aren't always completely aware all of the time (sad though that might be ), or that signs somehow get obscured/put in funny places - otherwise, why have we got a database at all? .
And GerryC says
Quote:
what's so special about the "last" camera. It's not like the speed limit will change or anything.
It's a little more complicated tracking your average speed IMO over an extended distance compared with switching between emergency braking and boy racing (not me!! I'm retired ) now and again, as some people apparently do. So I just thought it was useful to have an idea when you could just revert to 'unmonitored' driving (and possibly Andy_P does as well ). This also seems to lie behind PGPSW providing the average speed calculation in their iPhone app after all (?).
Go For It MaFt!! _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:38 am Post subject:
MaFt wrote:
i'll think about it if you lot promise to scour the submission map and update us with any missing 'end' data as not all the specs are completely covered yet
MaFt
You wish. These specs cameras are getting beyond a joke. Over the last couple of weeks, I've travelled M1, M3, M42, M25, M6, M5, M4, M62, some of them more than once, and keeping up with the specs is a nightmare! Just when I think that's it, another bunch pop up with no speed limit, with speed limit, with camera not in use signs, without not in use signs, new empty poles, old empty poles. If only CamerAlert came with a complimentary iPhone I'd stand some sort of chance! _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:46 am Post subject:
BigPerk wrote:
But I'm pleased there is a bit of interest.
It's strange how I find that you always contribute interesting stuff, for which many thanks. I confess my post was (as far too often!) somewhat close to getting an "Off Topic" red card and intended to add a little lightheartedness. Being both retired and working allows me too much time to saunter along Her Majesty's highways with nothing better to do than study the street furniture! _________________ Dennis
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is that there has been a mention in the 'specs' threads of more than just a 'start' and 'end' camera, with interim ones in some cases as well. Maybe I have misunderstood this, but if not does it complicate the turning on/off of the average speed warning particularly?
! Can't BELIEVE the odd petty criticisms you've got - some seem to think it's a failure because of a few extras they think it hasn't got - you spend FAR more on satnavs and software which don't seem anywhere near as professional from what I can see. 
). This also seems to lie behind PGPSW providing the average speed calculation in their iPhone app after all (?).
