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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: GPS conversion land to air? |
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Hi
total newbie!
I am a private pilot looking at buying a GPS, I currently own a medion gopal road GPS.
1) Can GPS handhelds be reprogrammed with new firmware to make it function as an aviation GPS as opposed to land based? If so how
2) If I buy a Garmin III, do these all have the multi function as I have een offered one but dont think its the aviation type as it was used buy a walker, if so can it be upgraded with the relevant software and maps?
Thanks for any help
Keith |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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It depends, there are many aviation applications for suitably equipped PocketPC's. You can't reprogram a PND such as a TomTom GO etc but again Garmin do have aviation versions of some of their devices that come complete with Jeppessen databases and aviation related functionality (at a price!). _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Kand wrote: | 2) If I buy a Garmin III, do these all have the multi function |
The Garmin GPS III was a nice little unit in it's day but was 5 years ago and it is a very old unit now. Don't buy it unless it's real cheap.
I'm not a pilot and I don't understand all the navigation requirements all that well but from what I can see, your choice is thus:
A consumer GPS unit which will perform reasonably well for navigation between pre-programmed waypoints while flying (as well as on the road/boat/walking etc). You can program in the locations of airports, exclusion zones, navigation beacons etc and set up waypoints when you plan your trip. Watch out for the modern car oriented units because they can't display things like cross track error, course to steer, rate of climb etc. Go for one of the "On the trail" models. Also be aware that due to the way GPS works, the altitude reading on a GPS unit CAN NOT ALWAYS BE TRUSTED.
Alternatively you can get a specialist aviation unit which will have proper aerial maps with all the beacons, exclusion zones, airport runway maps etc programmed in. These are fairly expensive and I guess it depends on how serious you are about flying.
Probably the best thing to do is ask at your aeroclub and see what people use. An option might be to club together with a few people and buy yourself a proper portable aviation unit to share, though once you've flown with it you might not want to share it!
Note that you can download the manual for Garmin units and have a read to see exactly what features they offer and this might help with your decision!
Good luck! _________________ Gone fishing! |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts
This GPS will always be secondary form of nav/flying as CAA will not approve them due to USA ownership, going to go for a Garmin 196
thanks |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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It has nowt to do with GPS being USA run but a 196 is an excellent choice. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Oh really? I was taught that UK CAA would never approve GPS for primary navigation because the GPS system is US miltary owned and they can and regularly jam signals, infact I have often seen on the NOTAMs (notice to airmen) that GPS will be jammed in a location with co-ordinates given so that you are aware it int going to work
If thats not the case then what is the reason behind it? sattelite aquisition?
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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I hold a PPL myself btw. The signal is not regularly jammed, but Notice Advisories to Navstar Users (NANUs) do detail planned outages. These reports are also distributed in the UK via NOTAM's.
The primary reason that GPS is prohibited as a primary instrument is one of approval and testing. Precision approach using approved GPS devices for holders of IFR ratings are being considered. There will also doubtless come a time when approved devices are permitted as a primary instrument for all forms of navigation. But you will appreciate that the CAA don't want pilots relying on sub-grade hardware and software as their primary instrument!
There is an interesting document on the subject from the CAA here.
What/where do you fly? _________________ Darren Griffin |
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robertn Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 06, 2005 Posts: 564
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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It's even more complex an issue than you think. GPS is used in Aviation survalence of heavy jets by Air Traffic Control - ADS-B transponders, not many ANS providers can support ADS-B though
For GA, GPS is not recognised as reliable enough for a nav aid, hence the reason CAA will not approve it as the sole means of navigation. There are few (if any?) CAA approved avionics units that use GPS, except the ADS-B transponders, and you don't want to know how much they cost.
The Garmin handhelds are almost certainly not developed to the same standards as other avionics instruments, I don't know much about the aviation units. Garmin does do a very nice glass cockpit for light aircraft, have you looked at that? |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, shows how much my instructor knew!
I fly PA-28 out of Denham EGLD, TPC, had my license for 3 years, was going to do the IMC but as the future of national ratings under Europe are in jeopardy I think I will hold onto my money!
Although 2 of the warriors I fly have built in GPS, believe it or not I was never taught its use other than the COM part of it, so I have never given it an ounce of thought really and only ever dead reckoned.I started flying with a friend I met through the club and he has his GPS mounted on the yoke with the Nav all loaded up and I must admit it gives a lovely sense of security especially flying around the many CTRs of the South East. This is the only reason I want one, but then looking at all the other info you can derive from it I see this as a real gem. certainly makes me feel happier!! |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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"The Garmin handhelds are almost certainly not developed to the same standards as other avionics instruments, I don't know much about the aviation units. Garmin does do a very nice glass cockpit for light aircraft, have you looked at that?"
Would love one, would also love the money to buy one!! |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Aye a mere £20k per panel! _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oh in that case I will buy 2 then, didnt realise it was that cheap
costs more than my mates Aircraft!! |
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Kand Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jan 29, 2008 Posts: 12
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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What would you say is a reasonable price for a Garmin GPS III, been offered one for £150, seems a bit steep to me if as you say its old hat |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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very steep, certainly no more than £70 ish _________________ Darren Griffin |
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philpugh Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2003 Location: Antrobus, Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: |
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It's too much IMHO.
You can get new GARMIN models with similar features for this sort of price off the internet. _________________ Phil |
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