Legal issues with bluetooth handsfree

[kev7607]

Can anyone tell me what the law says about using my sat-nav as a handsfree phone ? Is it illegal to have a phone conversation whilst driving or does that just cover actually holding the phone to your ear ?
Cheers

[philpugh]

Murky area. My take on this is...

It's certainly illegal to use your phone in your hands whilst in control of the car - this includes whilst stationary if the engine is running.

It's illegal to use phone with wired earpiece - even with voice activated dialling

It's 'legal' to use your phone hands free with BT headset and the phone in a permanent holder - or out of the reach of your hands. I often keep mine in the briefcase on the back seat. But if the police believe it is causing your to pay less attention to your driving then they can get you for "due care and attention".

They can do you under the same sort of thing for eating/drinking at the wheel (stationary or not). I think the appropriate phrase is 'whilst in control of the car' which includes stationary with keys in ignition I believe.

It will almost certainly depend upon the attitude of the Chief Constable of the area you are in.

I believe we do have one or two police officers on this forum.
_________________
Phil

[DennisN]

[robertn]

The mechanical loading of holding a phone has been proved to be significantly less of a safety concern that the cognitive load of having the conversation. There is little difference between hand held and hands free in the effect on the drivers ability to safely navigate the car.

In one test, the only people able to drive and talk at the same time, with little loss of safety were Airline Pilots and Lorry drivers. Airline pilots are extensively trained "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate". Lorry drivers typically have extensive experiance with RT's, so do the same. Joe Public tends to "Communicate first, drive last", hence the need to get people trained to drive first, communicate last, or to stop them talking. The latter is easier to implement

The only reason for the phone to be out of reach is to stop text messaging while driving - the worst combination of mechnical and cognitive loads.

Where does this leave us with the law - we may get ticketed if we get caught, we will get done if we have a crash, provided we don't die. How does Vehicular Manslaughter sit with you, because every time you talk it is a chance you are taking

One question you should ask yourself, why are you prepared to talk on the phone, and not drink and drive (I assume you don't). The effect on your driving is the same.

[PaulB2005]

[DennisN]

[robertn]

I did mean general "Joe Public", no personal attacks intended and I apologise if my post appeared that way.

[philpugh]

[nuttynurse]

Its a pity then that the majority of lorry drivers I see who are driving their lorries single handedly, trying to negotiate their wagons through busy built up areas whilst chatting on their mobile don't show more responsibility for their profession. Only the other day I had a plonker of a lorry driver pulling out from the lights across a busy, tight junction, trying to manoeurve his juggernaut whilst chatting on his mobile. Having given him a very disapproving look, he had the cheek to look at me as if I was in the wrong. Wish I had had a camera (hands free of course). Surely the large professional companies can afford to fix hand free units to their cabs so their drivers can use both hands to steer. If DennisN can manage to do so in his "White van" they can, and certainly theirs nothing to stop the independent lorry/van driver from doing so either. Its not that expensive and if you are talking about "Professional Drivers" then inherent in that is "Responsible". What ever happened to lorry drivers being given their written order of drops for the day? Why don't the "Professional lorry driver just call into base at his next drop to pick up any new instructions if they are required too? Most large companies have trackers on their rigs so they know where they are along a given route, so it not as if they can't plan ahead.

I would like to know why you think lorry drivers are in anyway better trained than anyone else when it comes to the use of mobile phones, CB's or anything else come to to that? The majority of commercial airlines have co-pilots and even most light aircrafts aren't trying to manoeurve around obstacles and other road vehicles whilst in contact with the Tower. And for sure they can't just pull up at a layby or service station if they have a pressing call to make. There is certainly no great comparison to be drawn between pilots and lorry drivers that for sure. When, during their HGV instruction, do these drivers have mobile phone training, RT, CB whatever? They don't. No more than a "Blonde" in her Merc has training to put on her make-up using the rear view mirror whilst driving. A 21 can pass his/er test today and be deemed professionally qualified to drive a juggernaut single handedly tomorrow deeming them also to be a professional mobile chatter also? What Rubbish. The same 21 year old parks up his lorry gets in his car to drive home, picks up his mobile to phone the girlfriend, mother or friend, gets seen and caught by the police, and says in his defense - its alright officer, I am a "Professional Lorry Driver" so I can do this legally I been trained to the same extent as a Jumbo Jet Pilot. Hogwash. I've seen so called professional lorry drivers reading newspapers across their steering wheels whilst driving, no doubt this makes them professional newspaper correspondence also? The truth really is that most of the people most of the time are really just using their mobiles for nothing more important than looking important and the need to talk to someone for what ever frivolous reason.

[alix776]

Ms nurse a few points

I hgv do not have more right than a car driver to use a mobile phone whilst driving in fact the maximum fine is double that for a car driver

the driver turning left may have been getting directions to a collect/delivery.

yes most hgvs have trackers but as in cars they are used fo theift only and most telematics systems are extremly expensive

what make you think most large logistics companies operate these systems effectivly the larger ones are some of worst operated fleets in terms of veihcle utilisation.
again cost

most hgv drivers do use handsfree as it our licence and lively hood on the line.

as regards to training this is improving but haulage is still along way behind other sectors of business in terms of technology usage, training, and effective implimentation
what's juggernut ??????

the days of a drivers get a work sheet for the day went out the window when the supermarkets went to just in time deliverys ( now theres a joke in its self )

I see many cars driver doing much more dangerous things on a daily basis yes there are idiots out there and that includes my industry too if you like an inside look I'm sure I could arrange a trip out for you with a firm as I have many contacts in the industry or you could come to santa pod truck show where ill be and have look round.

the use of gps tracking as a fleet management tool is growong but for many small companies its simply not pheesable (spelling) due to costs and the equipment or web interface not being able on a mobile device or mobile phone. for a transport manager to use as many companies in the uk operate anything up to 10 veihcles with the owner encompassing dispatcher and planner as well as driving themselves
hope that helps answer a few questionsyou had.
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl

[nuttynurse]

Its Mr Nurse actually.

The driver in question was leaving the trading estate in fact. Had he needed directions I'm sure he could have got these before starting up his lorry and setting off on his journey, don't you think.

My brother is an HGV driver and I have been out on his wagon several times. He switches his mobile off unless he is parked up somewhere and needs to report a problem i.e. breakdown etc. He works for a large milk distribution company. I also worked as a Plant Fitter before becoming a nurse and travelled many miles as the drivers mate on lowloaders and tippers, so not entirely ignorant of what it is like in a lorry cab.

A "juggernut" is the lunatic trying to drive his lorry one handedly whilst negotiating traffic lights whilst having a conversation on his mobile phone cause he couldn't be assed to call for directions before setting off.

The sheer number of lorry drivers, as well as van and car drivers I see driving vehicles whilst on a mobile phone, do not give the impression of them being in the minority.

The point surely is that even if the logistic companies don't employ hands-free mobiles or tracking services then they have no right to expect to jeopardise the drivers license by contacting him on his mobile handset knowing this to be illegal and dangerous act. The driver, whether working for the large logistic companies or themselves, also have a responsibility not to use a handheld mobile phone. My brother becomes responsible for the vehicle he is driving once he has carried out his own visual inspection on the vehicle and has agreed to take it out on the road. Its up to him to decide whether it is safe to drive. And it is up to him to drive it safely. Someone working independently could surely afford a handfree cradle and a bluetooth headset. They could perhaps ask DennisN for details if they need advice on installation and set-up.

[alix776]

companies do provide handfree kits and by calling the driver and expecting him/her to answer non handsfree they would also be up for prossicution (spelling)

usually when you seen any driver on the phone using a handset I would think they are on there personal phones rather than company issued ones.

this is the main problem and police and traffic commisioners are clamping down on it when a driver is caught.
unfortunatly the way of modern communications the problem will get worse be for it gets better.

as for using a cb this is still legal to use as it uses push to talk
however if the police think you are not paying full attention to your driving then you could still be prossecuted under the handheld device
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl

[nuttynurse]

Well alix776, I think that takes us full circle as it was the plonkers on mobile phones whilst driving lorries, vans or car that I was taking issue with not the responsible ones who don't. You will recall I was on about the idiot coming through the lights whilst chatting on a mobile. I was also challenging the comment that pilots and lorry drivers were somehow on par with each other in terms of their communication abilities whilst flying or driving their respective crafts. The only comparison to be drawn here is the responsibility they have towards their passengers or fellow road user whilst in charge of their vehicles. However I do not tar all lorry, van or drivers with the same brush as the mindless idiots who's macho attachment to their handset truely deserve to lose them their livelihoods. 10-4.

[DennisN]

We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?.
Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!