Toshiba e800 - Pocket PC with 4" VGA screen.

IanM

Hi,

I recently bought the above Pocket PC (also known as the e805) for use with GPS applications (mainly walking/cycling) and wondered if anyone else had any experience with it and knows which applications work in VGA mode?

I have tried OziExplorer and Memory Map Navigator and both seem to display the maps correctly (although the latter has a few redraw problems at the edges and seemed to crash occasionally). The 1:25000 OS maps in particular look gorgeous with 4 times the resolution of a normal Pocket PC. I haven't tried interfacing with GPS yet because of the pouring rain (and a rugby-induced hangover), but hopefully the screen resolution shouldn't affect that side of things.

Aside from GPS, the VGA screen is extremely useful for other applications as well: web browsing in particular becomes viable for proper web pages rather than ones geared towards PDAs.

One gripe about the VGA screen is that I had to use a hack knocked up by a guy on the Brighthand forums to get all the apps working - the Toshiba screen resolution switcher that comes with it is rubbish. And I haven't found anything that will allow me to use it in landscape mode, which would be even more useful.

The PDA looks very old and clunky next to some of the more recent iPaqs (or even the older iPaqs come to think of it), but the VGA screen more than makes up for that. It also has 128Mb of RAM; 32Mb of extra flash ROM (plenty for most of your apps); CF; SD; the latest 400MHz processor; built-in WiFi or bluetooth (I got WiFi and a Toshiba bluetooth SD card) and a large removeable battery (with the option of a very large battery apparently).

All in all I'd recommend it. Once you've seen a high quality map on a VGA screen you'll never want to go back to a standard QVGA Pocket PC.

Cheers,
Ian.

Darren · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:49 am Post subject:

I've been following the threads on BostonPocketPC and Brighthand, certainly until the hack had been published I could see little point in this, a great idea that appeared to have been knobbled from the word go. With the hack in place it's a different prospect altogether.

I'd be interested to know if any GPS Nav applications could take advantage of all that screen real estate Question

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Darren Griffin

IanM · Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:04 am Post subject:

I'm not sure if the extra resolution would help in-car navigation apps much (you have to be up close to the PDA to really use it) but for walking and cycling, the fact that you get 4 times the detail makes maps much more useful (as well as looking great).

The difference with Internet Explorer is probably even more noticable - you can usefully browse most internet sites, instead of only those geared for PDAs (a very small minority). It would be even better if you could browse in landscape though, because then you'd then rarely need to scroll horizontally. Having said that, it's a minor quibble given the improvement over browsing on other Pocket PCs.

It is surprising that Toshiba restricted VGA to just their bundled applications because, as you say, it makes the package as sold pretty standard for a high spec PDA. It's almost criminal to sell something with such a wonderful screen and then restrict it's full usage to just a few standard applications. It really shouldn't be necessary to use a third party hack to unlock the potential of a device that is major step forward for Pocket PCs.

The hack is very good but does have a few limitations - the need to soft-reset to switch resolutions, and the inability to click on the Start button being the main two (you need to use a button to get the start menu) but hopefully these will soon be ironed out. And let's hope that there's an upgrade when Pocket PC 2004 comes out, reportedly with VGA compatibility built-in.

The VGA aspect is certainly not perfect, but the pros outweigh the cons even now, and things are bound to get better as more apps are designed to make use of the extra resolution.

If you're looking for a new PDA and want an alternative to those sexy iPaqs, then it's worth taking a look at the Toshiba. It may look almost prehistoric in comparison at first, but just switch it on in VGA mode and it's the competition that instantly looks dated.

Cheers,
Ian.

gpsfan · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 16, 2003 Posts: 28

The VGA resolution on PocketPCs appears to be something to look forward to judging by the article they just put up on GPSpassion: http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=73
It's in french but the animated gif's are impressive

IanM · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:35 am Post subject:

Thanks for the link - those pictures really show the difference that a VGA screen makes. I'm impressed that TomTom2 makes the most of the extra resolution by showing more of the map rather than just showing the same view in a higher resolution, although the way the text shrinks makes me wonder if it would still be readable whilst driving. Visual buttons would probably have the same problem.

Hopefully the next version of TomTom will show the extra detail but maintain the text sizes and positions.

Now I need to decide whether to transfer the licence from my old iPaq to the Toshiba.

Cheers,
Ian.

Dave · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:05 am Post subject:

I might be missing something here, but surely isn't this like running Jimmy Landscape in portrait mode and selecting a higher screen resolution ?

Not that I've tried, but it is possible. I know most apps don't like working in landscape mode, but surely you could use something like Jimmy Landscape to bump up the screen resolution on any Pocket PC ? Or does the screen distort ?

MikeB · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:54 am Post subject:

Dave, you definatly are missing something, like 200,000+ dots.

If I am not mistaken the Tosh has a VGA screen 480x640 as opposed to a PDA screen 240x320. To get VGA size on the normal PDA you have to drop the dots (and therefore the definition) somewhere.
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Mike Barrett

IanM · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:49 pm Post subject:

Mike's right: most Pocket PCs (all except the Tosh at the moment I think) have 240x320 = 76,800 pixels. The Tosh has 480*640 = 307,200 pixels. This makes maps look so much better because you can show 4 times the detail on the screen, making text etc more easily readable. It does mean that you have to look a bit closer, which is why I'm not sure about the advantages when driving, but for walking or cycling applications it's a major improvement.

Cheers,
Ian.

MikeB · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:43 pm Post subject:

I feel a "Dear Toshiba" email coming on. We really should get in touch with Toshiba and see what it is like to use with the various GPS mapping applications we use.

Although you do get a lot more definition you also find it compressed as the density of the dots are halved, making it more difficult to read.

I have found this with the Palm Tungsten T2 where the screen is 380x380 in an area about 55mmx55mm where as the iPaq has 240x320 in an area of 55mmx73mm.
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Mike Barrett

IanM · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:09 am Post subject:

It probably makes text more difficult to read with navigation apps that are geared towards a certain resolution, but it actually makes most OS or A-Z maps much easier to read. This is because you can zoom them to whatever level you want, so the font sizes are less important. A character that is 4mm high on a VGA screen will be much clearer than the same size character on a normal QVGA screen with 4 times less pixels to play with in the same area.

This makes it possible to read characters when they are smaller and therefore to fit more useable map on the screen. People with better eyesight than myself (glasses are looking more and more likely recently) will be able to zoom out further and still find the text on the map useful, whilst those with worse eyesight will probably use a higher zoom level. Even then I reckon that most people will find the map clearer and more useable than on a 240x320 screen.

This is what I've found with Memory Map and OziExplorer, but I'd be interested in how other apps make use of the higher resolution. So a Dear Toshiba letter to enable you guys to check this out sounds a very good idea to me.

Cheers,
Ian.

maggio · Occasional Visitor Joined: Jan 09, 2004 Posts: 11

I'm still unsure about the difference - in term of map readability/usability in a dynamic environment - on a dirt bike - between running Ozi at 240x320 with a map zoomed at 50% and using the e800 at Vga res at 100% zoom (beside the less space taken by the app itself of course).

It is true that the pixel are 4 times in number, but since they stay on the same area, they should be - i imagine - "smaller, compressed" so.. again what is the REAL difference that would justify the more money, the worst design, the renounce to a worldwide warranty coverage etc?

I sow the pictures at gpspassion, but, imo, the only pic of Ozi is unclear since it is a gif pic of an enlargment... If someone could take an HIGH resolution picture of the screens in the two situation.. (normal and vga res) in jpg format.. that would allow a better visual comparison

thanks

Massimo

DavidW · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject:

As IanM says, one of the rumours for Pocket PC 2004 is better support in the OS for landscape mode and higher resolution screens. At the moment, as people who have software like Nyditot Virtual Display will know, things are a bit patchy in Pocket PC 2003 and many applications don't work entirely correctly in non-standard screen modes. I'm sure that's why the current situation with the Toshiba is a bit 'hacky' in nature.

Pocket PC 2003 was rumoured at one point to have this beefed up screen support - but it certainly didn't appear in the final release. The most important change in Pocket PC 2003 was changing the core OS to the latest version of Windows CE, CE .NET 4.2. That's actually a very important step taken - not least because we will hopefully have less problems in terms of drivers and software compatibility moving to a future version of Pocket PC based on CE 4.2 or, if Microsoft come out with it, a later member of the CE 4.x line. Much of the pain with compatibility issues has already come in the Pocket PC 2002 (CE 3.0) to 2003 (CE 4.2) switch.

Pocket PC 2004 - which at the moment is not that firm, but there have been some reasonably official announcements at developer conferences, I believe - sounds as if it's going to have rather more user level changes.

A couple of the problems with the current situation over support for non 240 by 320 screen sizes are visible on the gpspassion page mentioned - if you look at the pictures of the Navigator menu, and the one with the keyboard SIP, you'll see that they're being displayed at the wrong size, which is a significant hit on usability. It looks as if TomTom Navigator's 3D mode goes wrong as well (which accords with my reading of the French article).

Certainly I won't be running to buy something like the Toshiba without better OS support for changeable screen resolutions (which, in turn, may well require upgrades of application software to work with correctly). At the moment, I think that it's very much a case of VGA having value if a particular application (such as a topographical mapping application) happens to support the resolution with the current OS and hack.

I'm sure things will progress further in the future; not least because my understanding is that Microsoft has relaxed the hardware specification of Pocket PCs somewhat, to allow devices like the iPAQ 4350 and this Toshiba (my understanding is that the older, stricter rules forbade built in keyboards and screens other than 240 by 320 on consumer Pocket PCs). That said, the existance of the Toshiba and the 'hack' will probably mean many software companies adding support for different screen resolutions, even if it takes until the release of a future version of Pocket PC for a standard user interface for multiple resolutions to be agreed. As such, it can only be a good thing, especially as it will also drive the development of the higher resolution screen technology.

David

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